NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/index.php)

- Lounge (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

- - Bad GM designs and ideas (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59576)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen (Post 822958)

As the owner of a car with said floor switch I disagree

Reason?

Olds Acheiva...junk
late 00-present full size front wheel hubs...junk
3rd gen radios/stereo systems...sucked
S10/Blazer catylitic converters...constantly clogging & a Mdrfkr to wel one in on 4wd models
98-02 v6 fbodys ... lower bellhousing bracket/bolt assys that suck to get out cause ypipe bolts to manifold usually break when removing to get brackets off.
Gm alternators ...in general go bad about 60-70k miles
s10/blazer heater cores... not fun to do.

Ooo Ill play.

Scrapping solid front axles in 4wd pick up trucks rather than moving to a more modern suspension. They should have followed suit with dodge and done IFS in 1/2 tons and straight front axles with a coil suspension in 3/4 and 1 tons.

Everything they did with truck styling after the revised OBS era trucks. 02 chevy and 06 GMC were the last truly good looking GM trucks.

Never having a good light duty 5 speed transmission in a truck.

Scrapping offering of manual trans in trucks all together.

Holding onto the stupid aveo 5 years after the market shifted towards making small MPG friendly hatchbacks sporty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320B4U (Post 822659)

-Ev1..not a bad idea, but lets only lease these f'kers and destroy them when the lease expired even though there was public outcry for those that wanted to keep and buy the outright.
-So far the volt has been a disaster...bad advertising..no one knew it wasn't a traditional hybrid like the prius
What they turned Saturn into. It was a car that competed w/the Korean makes and baseline honda/toyotas'..cheap, good on gas and affordable. Then came the millenium and they were rebadging g6's as saturns and the big suv as a saturn (outlook)..they strayed from their mission statement and for the most part the majority if the public didn't associate them w/gm..they were profitable and viable and still would have turned a profit if they kept to the original gameplan.
-Hello, Hummer. Gm waited too long to cashout when the gas crisis hit.
-G8 idea...HOLD UP FOLKS...NOT WHAT YOU THINK....gm and pontiac waited too long to release a car that could compete w/the likes of bmw and lexus (m5 and isf)...by the time they did it was too little too late
-New GTO..sorry folks, lackluster styling, like the '95+ monte carlos. They should've went retro w/a '66 look alike..bring back the 389 via a punched out ls-uno....this along w/the g8 could've saved pontiac from the chopping block..hell, rebadge a 5th gen and change the styling a little and keep the firebird...bam...instant success.
-Cancelling the olds line was overdue. Unfortunately, there was no marketablility to the younger generation esp if they were going to keep Buick (as the new gs is hot). Their demographic were catered to octogenarian's who don't drive more than 20 miles a week and their car will last 30 years.
-Denali pickups and rear wheel steering. Remember these from 5 years ago? Each time i see one i cringe at how much it would cost to replace worn components...not needed when you have something big enough to drive over someone w/if your turning radius is in jeopardy..lol.
-Gm's idea to buy saab. Failing manufacturer w/a loyal fan base similar to waterfest attendee's...not solid enough to stand on their own. Unfortunately this Swedish egg was scrambled upon delivery unlike its lucrative counterpart base company Ikea.
-GM waiting too long to jump on the retro styling bandwagon. 5th gen was looong overdue as well as their answer to the pt cruiser=hhr. Market was saturated for the hhr as over a million + pt's were already sold and luckily the camaro was bad a$$ enough to hold its own agains the mustang, which came out a full 5 years earlier. Something tells me they have the answer to the beetle hidden in the gm vault upon release in 20 years.
-Opti-spark
-cross-fire injection in '82-84 vettes and early 3rd gen's

I own a 1500HD with the qaudrasteer. And I absolutely loved it. Owned the truck for 5 years. Bought used at 48,000 miles. Here at 108,000, never had a problem. It works so great with parking and towing and above 40 mph, the rear wheels turn in the same direction, so quick lane changes and you have less body roll. It's not the serviceability that was at fault but the cost for getting the option was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7pointoh (Post 822971)

Werd. Did brakes on one at worked. Turned it around in the yard and went, wow this was a great idea. Too bad it didnt take off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS1ow (Post 822906)

am i the only one that dislikes 4L60e transmissions ? or do they just dislike me ?

I've had two; one in a 1995 Blazer and one in a 2005 Trailblazer. The 95 lost 1st and 4th gear at 160k miles, all stock. The 05 was great for me with no issues. I sold it at 110k miles and it had a Transgo HD2 shift kit, vette servo and .500 boost valve from 50k miles up.

When GM brought back the nova in the 80's with the toyota motor. idk what they were thinking.

also how many different firebird decals the had for the hood. different color feathers and the head facing different ways depending on wat the car came with. y couldnt they just go with one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.J.SLEEPER (Post 822734)

Berretta..... = doors falling off going down the road

2.8 3.1 etc... valve cover gasket design

if you mean the Lower Intake Manifold Gaskets on the 660's then nah the design on them were fine, its just when they moved to dexcool they didnt realize the dexcool would eat away the rubber inlays over time and create a ''blown head gasket'' type symptoms. lots of people got rid of a lot of good motors over a really cheap and easy fix.

which brings me to berettas. im a beretta fan just as much as i am of fbodies. theyre cars that have never failed me. a lot of them fell apart from cheap interiors but mechanically these are some of the best and most reliable cars you can own...granted as long as it was the 2.0/2.2 or the 2.8/3.1. the things not a lot of people know about berettas is that they were a test model for a lot of things gm ended up putting into their later cars. hell there are even fwd v8 and awd twin turbo v6 concepts of these floating around...and theyre amazing.

another little known fact...before all these kids were pining over their dohc hondas, gm was already ahead of the game with a 180ish hp dohc 2.3 l four banger known as the quad 4. it was totally ahead of its time but without the beretta and other little known gmfwd cars as a test bed for the 2.3, becoming the 2.4 twin cam in the z24's the ecotechs later on in the future might not have been as good learning all the ins and outs of a 4 cylinder running on a higher output than most.

If they had released them in america with the euro headlights it wouldve sold a bit better i think. it really shows the whole baby camaro idea off. this is a pic of a fully restored (laugh i know its funny to you) Beautiful MQBM Beretta GTZ from Europe.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/373/dsc01044s.jpg

more pics can be seen here :D
http://www.quad4forums.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=19812

Did anyone mention the thermostat housing/location on I think the transversely mounted 3.4's?

-3800 II/III head flow design, just aweful.
-(Though it's eaton) the plastic puck coupler for the superchargers
-Chevrolet SSR pick up
-Multi-platforming the same damn chassis ( i.e. Blazer/Bravada/Jimmy...)
- $40,000 hybrid car

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96 (Post 823147)

-Chevrolet SSR pick up
-Multi-platforming the same damn chassis ( i.e. Blazer/Bravada/Jimmy...)
- $40,000 hybrid car

SSR was neither a bad design or idea.

The term you are looking for is rebadging. Multi-platforming is a fantastic idea and something that GM lacked for a long time.

What 40k hybrid car?

Can we please keep GM sympathiser's out of the thread?

he actually has 3 good points there... SSR was awesome and did what it was supposed to do, every company rebadges cars, and i assume u mean the volt when u refer to 'hybrid'?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT (Post 822664)

Yeah, but I'm trying to be as objective as I can in this thread. It's easy to spout personal preference stuff about what they should have done in your opinion, or speculate sales numbers, or what cars were a cool idea, or what cars are fun to drive.

For example, the SSR was not a great seller and did nothing like it should well, but at least it got people looking into GM products because it was a cool idea.

I'm talking fall-flat-on-your-face stuff. Like didn't/barely worked properly, a royal pain to maintain, missed the target market by a mile, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28 (Post 823216)

SSR was neither a bad design or idea.

The term you are looking for is rebadging. Multi-platforming is a fantastic idea and something that GM lacked for a long time.

What 40k hybrid car?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96 (Post 823217)

Can we please keep GM sympathiser's out of the thread?

Cool, I get to quote myself.

SSR was around the same time as the Prowler (also a poor seller with retro styling) and the Thunderbird (same). They were all pushing the retro angle to see what people like. There was a purpose. Whether or not it accomplished what it needed to do can be debated. But it wasn't without some form of success.

We forgot the ultra retro Chevy HHR, that tried to copy the PT Cruiser AFTER it was headed down the low volume trail! Lets also throw in the Chevy AVEO that GM cannot give away.:facepalm:

It seems like the general consensus is, one man's junk is another man's treasure. The specifics seem to have no trend whatsoever. Someone calls out a specific design, and like clockwork another defends it.

A BAD design is very subjective, I don't know that you can quantify it. Even with concrete numbers, polling data, and public opinion. This does not indicate quality whatsoever. One person may call a car with hand-crank windows and a manual transmission a good design for its simplicity, another may call said car a poor design for its lack of innovation and features. Who is right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91chevywt (Post 823249)

See, I was wondering what the non-arguable stuff is. So far it's been a lot of subjective stuff.

The 4th gen window motor application is one of them. After 3 revisons they still suck. Same with the fuel sending unit. The '67 rear axle setup was so wheel-hoppy it broke rears. That's also a huge fail. The Eaton M90 coupler is kind of one, but the bigger fail is GM saying that you never need to change your supercharger oil... ever.

Cars that were cancelled and that you miss or cars that you just didn't think should get made isn't nearly the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maroman88 (Post 823238)

he actually has 3 good points there... SSR was awesome

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28 (Post 823216)

SSR was neither a bad design or idea.

The 2004 model sold below expectations with under 9,000 sales at US$42,000 each. Citing a 301-day supply of SSRs, General Motors in December of that year announced five weeks of layoffs at Lansing Craft Centre, the factory that made the SSR. On November 21, 2005, GM announced that it would close the Craft Centre in mid-2006, spelling the end for the SSR. The final SSR, a unique black-on-silver model (Highest VIN 1GCES14H06B124112), was built on March 17, 2006.[2] Analysts estimate that 24,150 SSRs were produced in total. Of the total production, 24,112 were available for sale to the public.

I do believe when it was given the LS2, sales picked up. Comparing sales of a handbuilt car is not always the best way to argue if it was a bad idea or not.

im not a fan of the SSR for its looks, but if that was say a LS2 sport truck as a Silverado i think it woulda been a lot better. i mean cmon, who doesnt love a ford lightning ?

Injector pumps on the earliery diesels.

I believe there's a problem with the back injector(s) on the newer diesels that are leaking into the cylinder, or is that attributed to the Injector pumps

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS1ow (Post 823305)

Silvy SS

Duramax injectors... I should know...Ive done like 3 sets already

Quote:

Originally Posted by Featherburner (Post 822960)

Reason?

nobody has elaborated as to why they don't like the floor high beam switches, I'm still interested in hearing why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT (Post 823339)

Silvy SS

you ever seen a silverado SS try to run with a lightning ? stock for stock. its really not a contest lol

a nice Single Cab Shortbed LS2 pickup with a Stick woulda have been amazinggg :drool:

with all the nicey nice SS nic-nacs of coarse... suade, navi, ecttt... not just a work truck with a nice motor lol

guess there just really wasnt a market for them.