you guys are missing the point. i don't give a **** about the media.

i'm talking about bush coming on tv personally and telling the american people he had personally seen evidence that saddam has WMD's.

WHERE IS THAT EVIDENCE? DON'T REPLY WITH "DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON TV?"

i clearly remember bush being completely certain that saddam had wmd's.

i've seen the quotes from democrats saying that he had them. but i'm talking about bush's evidence. he claimed he had it, but couldn't reveal it because then his source would be found out.

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

i don't want ad hominem attacks, i don't want media attacks. just tell me where the evidence is, and why bush is changing his story, and i'll agree with you.

You're not getting it. The "intelligence" officials gave Bush the evidence and so he came on tv saying Saddam had WMD's. The "intelligence" officials screwed that up with either bad intelligence or complete falsification. Bush had nothing to do with that. Any president would have taken that information and gone on tv saying Saddam had WMD's. Everyone in the Senate agreed that Saddam had WMD's and something had to be done about it. Bush isn't changing his story, he's explaining what happened.

Nope, he didn't lie, and you can't prove it, and I can't prove he didn't. So where does that leave you? Only that you believe he's a lier. You're proof being maybe Micheal Moore the anarchist :roll: . You have an opinion so yeah, it's a bunch of iffs and or buts about it. I don't appreciate you saying we can't disagree about Bush lieing to America. I find that really distrubing, that's my opinion. Oh, and if you think Bush lied to America then you think Kerry did as well. Remember, Kerry had the same exact inteligence as Bush and he agreed at the same time that we needed to go to war, only Kerry wanted to wait a while longer to increase our international support. Just chew on that for a little while and get back to me.

please don't bring that fat POS into this conversation, nobody brought him up.

you can disagree with bush without being a liberal :roll:

Any way you look at it, it's Bush's administration adn his fault that F-bodies are on hiatus :lol:

Let Al speak. Disagree with Bush all you want but I can only tell you that Michael Moore thinks Bush is a lier. That is why I'm asking him.
I brought him up, and I'm not a nobody.
I've already agreed with you that you can disagree with Bush without being a liberal. How about accepting that Kerry would have gone to war if he were president and instead, just tell me you voted for Kerry because of what he stands for. You know, things like health care, federal programs, etc.
I've already given you the facts that Kerry agreed with going to war, it's no secret. If he didn't want to go why did he give the President the thumbs up? This is my only arguement. I can't stand people that voted for Kerry because of Bush going to war. Tell me you don't like HOW Bush has run the rebuilding of Iraq and I'll respect every word that comes from your mouth.... just don't tell me I'm an idiot for thinking Bush didn't lie! That's my stink about all this Bush bashing BS.

i didn't vote for kerry because i think he wouldn't have went to war, i voted for him because i think bush is doing a terrible job of managing the mess after the war, and i think kerry could do a better job.

kerry earned my vote in the debates.

jeez, i made one post and it erupted....

I voted for bush because I didn't think Kerry could get the job done in Iraq, nor could he wage a serious war against terrorism. I believe his ideas were too soft. Also, the fact that he voted for the war, then criticized it for his own political gain made his appeal even less. He was a flip-flopper, plain and simple.

Michael Moore is a dishonest filmmaker who gets more credit than he deserves. "Fahrenheit 9/11" was full of lies and deceits, and he calls Bush a liar? that makes him a hypocrite on top of that. I would have loved to see his face when he watched Bush's victory speech.

Forget Moore...he was hell bent on taking apart Bush, so he did what he could to do so.

Im talking about when Bush and his Crew said Iraq has WMD.
We went in there only to find nothing.

What do you mean I have to prove that hes lying...HE DID IT FOR ME!!

"Iraq has WMD"
...roll tanks and invade a country, overthrow its goverment, find ZERO WMD.

He said they did, and they dont. Hello? How can you think that somehow you can twist this into he wasnt lying?

To give you a example...
I said that I just picked up a Z06, and it was an awesome car. I kept coming on this site saying it was awesome and that it was so fun to drive.
Yet when I post a picture of the car, all you see is my Maxx.
Is that not lying?
Now, in Bush terms, I didnt lie, I just gave misinformation.
Did I really say it was a Corvette Z06? Did I claim any speed records or any sort of kills racing? No. There was just some misinformation that led to a little misunderstanding.
I still lied, no matter how you want to twist the truth. If Bush got misinformation, why should I trust him in another conflict to where he says that he has proof of another source of going to war? Why should I belive anything he has to say about another conflict?
Why should I belive a word the man says when he can just turn around and say "well, I had bad information."
Its BS excuse. Biggest and baddest military force in the world where a tank has more computing power then 70% of the world, and we have "misinformation".
Its ******** layerd on top of ********. Another 4 years, we are gunna be so deep in it, we wont know which way is up.

Micheal Moore is a socialist...and the creators of southpark, matt stone and trey parker hate him...so he sucks!

seriously though, if you hate bush because of policies thats one thing, but i swear to christ if i hear one more idiot say "he dont speak good" as an excuse for hatin him, i'm gonna smack them. i dont like bush all that much, but kerry would have been useless for 4 years...lets review wut kerry has done in senate...over 20 years he's proposed and were passed...5 bills, 2 of which revolved around makin veterans day a holiday, and 2 of which involved earth day...the last one i cant remember but it was almost as ridiculous as the first 4...he wouldn't take troops out of iraq and if he did it would probably be a disaster, he wouldnt deal with north korea, and he wouldnt get u more money, all he would do is take back the rebate bush gave so the top 2% paid back more than us middle class folk and hten he would tax EVERYONE...the main point of being a liberal is that you tax people more so you can put money into programs that are useless most of the time (anyone ever hear of Midnight basketball, the program Clinton started as an example)... the point is instead of watchin CNN or readin the new york times (excellent sources of news when you arent interested in politics) or especially, especially listenin to media whores like Micheal Moore. its people like him that are makin americans hate america, and if you hate your home team, get the f@#k out...and a disclaimer, i'm not a republican, i consider myself an indepedent

I dont "hate" the home team.

And Bush "dont speak well" too. Smack me if you want, but the guy just sounds like he is shooting from the hip when he speaks. He doesnt impose an image of leadership, but neither does Kerry.
If it was up to me, I would have voted in McCain. I still cant belive that he lost to Bush.
Give me McCain, and then I will feel safe and secure. That is a real war hero. You cant say jack about some mild wounds, you cant call him a draft dodger, and you cant call him soft of defence.
He is the man we need right now. I think he would have delt with 9-11 much differently, and I dont think we would be in Iraq right now.

i agree, someone like mccain would have been better, to tell you the truth i'd have liked to see colin powell run before this Iraq thing tainted his name...although we all know he wouldnt have run, but he would have had my vote...the speakin thing gets me though, because like kerry spoke so well during the debates, this is true, although i'd say he won the first one, but not the last 2, eitehr they were "tied" as the times and few other papers called it or bush was alittle bit ahead, but when kerry spoke, did u really believe anything he said? he is such a politician living in his own little world, i think being president was just an achievement to write home to the family about, wut else does a man with a cushy job and all the money he could need have to do to get his jollies? we all should take a lesson and marry rich, i know thats the plan for me...

oh yea and vote john stewart 08...

You just earned my respect, thank you, and I agree Kerry did a better job in the debates. I just didn't believe half the things he was saying. I also don't like big government (huge health care plans). Some people can't save a dime in their pocket but I know I can. That's why I usually vote Rebuplican. It's not that Rebuplicans don't want health care, it's just they want to give you the choice. It's kind of like a Union of sorts. I'd prefer to keep my Union fees and let Capitalism and my Community help me live comfortably. Others like the security of a Union for obvious reasons. :) Finally some talk about things OTHER than the damn war.

You're confused.
Bush didn't lie about the WMD. He was given bad intelligence, it's not the same as a lie. It's called trusting a professional opinion (which was wrong).
Here's an example of what I'm talking about;
My car dyno's and there is a swooshing sound from under the hood. The dyno operator (a professional) assumes I have a turbo. You walk in and ask my what I have under the hood. I tell you it's naturally aspirated. You then don't believe me and ask the dyno operator. He tells you he heard a turbo swooshing. You then tell your friend not to race me for slips because you heard I had a turbo.
Did you just lie to your friend? No!! As didn't Bush. If you think he did then tell me why he has been impeached with the "proof". You know, all those guys in the intelligence agencies that just lost their jobs for giving crappy info were OBVIOUSLY telling Bush Saddam didn't have WMD :roll:
Nobody lied, get over it, just understand our government has been kind of touchy ever since 9/11 and Saddam pushed our buttons. The result was America (with Bush leading) wanting to kick Saddams ass. Even if he wasn't a threat to the US he was an evil dictator, can you say "rape rooms". I still think he was a threat to the US even if he didn't have WMD. It was only a matter of time.