bogged down with weight options and safety features???? :shock:

Tbird was a huge failure.

Um...Mustangs arent selling well at all. Camaro came within 5k units year vs year to the Mustang, and the Mustang had 6 months on the Camaro....
Second, Chevy doesnt sell the Camaro, dealers sell the Camaro.
Ford would and did charge mark ups in 05 when the Mustang first launched the all new model.
GM is still selling Camaro's faster then the Mustang, even with dealers marking them up.

Again, Ford, GM, Chrysler, anyone cannot dictate what the dealers sell the car for. It is illegal.

I know thats what my 79 Formula was. I know its not a true Muscle car but it had a 6.6 liter that made a insane 160hp and 340 ftlbs. It ran a low 17 in the 1/4 mile!! My uncles 69 GTO was and still is a low 15 second car with a 400 ci motor in it!! I like the old school cars but if you give me a choice between a 68 GTO vrs a 05 GTO I will pick the 05 GTO.

Too bad that 2nd gen bird will always be sexier. And you can make it go fast and handle and stop real easy. Hard to make the late model gto sexy.

I had a 1979 Solor Gold Trans Am bought new for $8,200. It had the WS5 package and the Olds 403 engine that with a 3,900 lb. car was a real pig. After adding 3:42 gears, a reworked carb and dist., opened up the hood scoop, removed cat and added a test pipe and had a true dual exhaust made for it, the car ran a best of 14.9 @ 94 mph. Biggest problem was vapor lock during a hot summer day.

My 98 V6 Firebird Went 14.9@93mph with a catback, Airlid, and Headers..

Not a shot at Ed, but the Olds 403 is not a strong runner. Even now you can barely buy parts for it, and it has cooling/gasket issues.

What I was trying to say that bone stock these cars were hard pressed to run mid 16's in the 1/4. Even the limited production 6.6 Pontiac engine was only 180 h.p. The compression ratio on the 6.6 Olds motor was about 8.5 to 1 and was rated at 160 h.p. It's biggest problem was the cat converter which was the pancake design and really choked the exhaust. It wouldn't rev over 4,200 rpm but after it was removed it would pull to 4,800. Getting those T/A to run in the low 15's was a BIG DEAL in 1980 because the 4.9 turbo that replaced it was even more of a pig.

there hasnt been a true muscle car since like '72

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. The engines were way underbuilt and the primitive emissions stuff (pellet-style cats) choked them really bad. A 1978 Z28 had 185 hp with a .390/.410 camshaft and 8.2:1 compression. Ouch.

'74. The Super Duty Trans Am. Pontiac opened the muscle car door and also closed it 10 years later.

Very true.. But just to compare a true muscle car to a modern day V6. My Uncles 69 GTO Ran a 15.5 bone stock he said. My 98 V6 Firebird Ran a 15.3 Bone stock!! I am not Talking crap on the old school cars. I am just saying that after owning a 30 year old Firebird I wouldnt buy another one. It would take way to much money to get them up to speed with the new cars and I like having options in a car. I like having a car that can handle, Brake, Accelerate, Run 13's stock with the A/C running.. Thats just me.. Old school cars were bad ass but They are just not for me.

I hope you are not talking about some of the 68-72 cars, like that GTO...

Bah, even a 74 GTO.

When I bought my new 1989 TTA I was invited to do a shoot out @ Raceway Park paid for by High Performance Pontiac magazine. It was during the week and for several hours it was just me against a 1965 GTO tri-power and a bone stock TTA. Mine had several mods such as a prom chip/ 160 stat and a test pipe(cat removed). The GTO's best time was 14.84 @ 93.75 mph vs the stock TTA was 13.74 @ 101.80 mph. I ran a best of 13.22 @ 105.38. To quote the GTO owner "I was amazed at the performance gain from such inexpensive changes such as a chip, bypasss pipe and colder stat. I would have to add headers, a bigger cam and some head work to equal that performance gain". This 3 page article was in the December 1989 H.P. Pontiac magazine. I was amazed at the performance gain that my son got with his G8 GT with a tune and all he had to do was download the info onto his computer and they sent him a program back that included all his upgrades.

hey. Just in case you did'nt know... 5.0 is back and has 412hp. I'll still run one just to see what happens.. i won't fail......:mrgreen:

Yes, we already had a thread about it where people were whining that there was Mustang discussions on a Fbody site :rolleyes:

I can't believe what I was reading about 05-06 GTO's. I know someone who actually let me borrow their 06 for a day. Bright red outside, red interior inside. LS2, 6 speed... I wanted to sell my Trans Am immediately and go buy one. In bright red the car was not boring looking by any means. And as a matter of fact, most females love the look of the GTO, whereas a Trans Am is a little bit much, and even a little bit awkward looking. And even to those who think it does look boring, ever heard of a sleeper? They are a blast to drive, and at the same time a thousand times more comfortable that a 4th gen... or a mustang for that matter. I think the issue is that a reviewer writes "this car looks like a grand am" and everyone else thinks the same thing.

Speaking of mustangs, I know three mustang owners. All of them love their cars, but all of them will admit they quickly got bored with their lacking performance after the newness of the car wore off. They want to modify, but the only thing really worth the money is a supercharger for those 4.6's, and thats a hefty amount of money to put down on mods all at once. My girlfriends dad, for example, fell in love with a 08 bullitt mustang at the lot and paid 32k for it. It's not slow, but knowing his friends g37 sedan is faster makes him cringe. He's been looking for pre-owned gt500's and c6's for a while now.

It just amazes me how long it took Ford to get with the program in the power wars. When a '10 GT not only has less power than the new Camaro/Challenger, but 8-year-old F-Bodies...it looks pathetic.

Ford is Pathetic!! My 96 GT had 215 Hp Stock!! A 96 V6 Camaro had 200 hp stock!! They make the Mustang so that anyone can drive it. When I had mine it felt like I was driving my Moms Tempo. It feels like driving any other car out on the road. Thats why they sold more then the 4th gens ( and that they were cheap POS's!).

Thats what I miss about having my V6 Firebird. I remember going to Pontiacs in the park and beating almost all of the Old School GTO's in the 1/4mile. They would say to me " what is my little V6 gonna run? 16's). Then I run a 14.2 on motor @ 98mph and they all really start to watch. My Little 3.8 taking out 6.6 liters!!

My friend was embarrassed when his '01 Mustang GT had +/- 5hp compared to my mom's 06 Eclipse GT