5 point harnesses on the street
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FYI FFB, Simpsons are not. |
dot or not harness are not legal in nj AFAIK. not sure any have dot anyway.
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I still think they are illegal in NJ. Even if legal, a cop will still ticket you and you’ll have to go to court to fight it out. plus I think they could still do more harm than good in a street car, with no helmet and no hans. Instead of all your body moving 15"-20" and dissipating energy as designed, now just your head and neck do. yikes. and airbags add a whole extra layer of complication. and with no bar/cage might kill you in a rollover. there is actually an expectation of you moving/leaning sideways in rollover in 3 points so if the roof partially collapses you still have a chance.
all that assumes the harness is installed correctly and doesn’t compress your spine in a 25 mph fender bender. |
What if your car didn't come with 3 point belts or even lap belts? How could they ticket you if your car never came with belts?
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In an old car with a non retractable style dual 2 point belt, no air bag, no padded steering wheel, and no crumple zones wouldn't wider double shoulder webbing be a benefit? No more face-meet-wheel? Quote:
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And what if the car is equipped with a proper roll bar, race seat, and harness is installed correctly. Would the lack of movement prevent you from hitting the roll bar?
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what a dick......could have just told you "you know those are illegal" didn't have to ticket you.....i mean atleast you were wearing a belt....
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No air bad to stop/slow it, and le snap snap vertebrae. |
Define the conversation. Race car or street car? Replacing factory belts? Etc. This conversation did start with a 4th gen f-body, not a 54 Ford.
John, yea, a properly installed harness is better than no belts or lap belts. But for f-bodies I can now get quality, modern 3 points in every generation. Including good retrofit rear 3 points. Morris Classics and others. Anyone driving a 68 Camaro coupe with lap belts is a moron. Kind of off topic, but despite what people do all the time a cage has no place in a street car. Watch that M3 wreck video for movement in an accident. Ok, let's use a harness, problem solved. Helmet? No helmet probably did not help the guy that wrecked that 74 in PA a few weeks ago. Energy dissipation seems to be key in these things. If I’m wearing a harness the only thing still doing 65 is my head. OE seatbelts are designed to stretch. Harnesses by nature stretch a lot less, for good reason. In the end, the assumption is 3 points is good so 5 is better is often false security. There is more to it than just belts. |
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If you have air bags, a helmet, stock seat belt and a bar, you would be fine. Helmet will prevent your brain from homogenizing on the bar and air bag/seatbelt will stop whiplash. If you delete airbags, throw a stiff steering wheel in, wear a 5point, and have a bar, well its your best interests to where something for your neck. As far as bar on the street, you can easily set it up so the main hoop is out of the whiplash range of your head and if you have a taller aftermarket seat to prevent head to bar contact, its even better. All it takes is money. And in the end, shouda stayed stock. |
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I guess we'd have to find out if a dot certified harness is legal. Who can do that? And I'm still not sure I'd use one on the street. Regarding the MCC type 3 points, they replace factory 3 points (albeit a different design) in factory mount locations, that could be a key differentiation from a harness. Not sure if that matters or not. But you'd never ever get a ticket for those belts. And his stuff is tested to surpass DOT requirements. But alas your point about non-stock could be legit. So 2 discussions here: 1) legality and 2) safety. |
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Yes, guys walk away from big race car wrecks, but you don't see them getting taken away because the camera rarely shows that. A regular car crash always has victims on backboards cause its a lawsuit if the EMT's don't take every precaution with a crash victim. Again, race car rules vs street car rules. True street cars don't need bars. :bertstare: |
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EDIT: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...px?reg=571.209 I'm reading this now. Posted up for anyone else who wants to take a peek. So far no sign of any requirement that 5 pts would not meet, other than the retractors. I think the "neck snap" due to 5 pt thing is bunk based on this text. |
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I watched a ford explorer fly through the air on the turnpike last year. So much energy dissolved from the movement, both on the street & in the air. If that girl had her belts on she lives. But she flew out the window. Old saying is true: it’s not the fall that kills you. It’s the sudden stop. |
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look at this document, look at all the warnings, seat styles, etc. involved. http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Ra...structions.pdf I’ve read this like 3 times. these belts were not tested by nhtsa and it just shows where schroth harness might pass under certain specific circumstances.: http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/NH...f_Approval.pdf Quote:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...px?reg=571.208 http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...px?reg=571.210 |
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yes, mounting matters a bunch. which is why every ricer moron with harnesses bolted to the floor are all going to compress their spines. seat style matters too. check that schroth document.
edit1: now that I think of it a car seat is a great example. look at the instructions. where the shoulder belts go through the seat must be above the child's shoulders. |
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