Is 4th gen intrest for composite parts still around?
 

Hey everyone, been a while to really sit down and write on here, between school and work. I got an offer for a very cheap 4.1 gen Camaro, and want to make some panels to sell, however I'm not even sure if the 4th gen Camaro crowd is that large, or interested enough in going the lengths to lighten up their vehicle. I wanted to make composite rear quarter panels, door skins, front fenders, hoop in front of rear glass, and a few other goodies.

I've basically been on the fence about going into starting a small business that would allow me to really hunker down and produce parts, but I would need to see if the investment would allow me to at least break even let alone profit. I would certainly build other panels down the line for Firebirds, and possibly 3rd gens if the demand was there as well, but at this time, I'm not even sure if I could get off the ground if the demand was too low. Honestly, from my standpoint, most cheapo-ebay so called "carbon fiber" hoods and such are nothing but a single layer of carbon fiber, with glass behind it, and using fibreglass resin, which is nothing but cutting corners, and adding unecessary weight. I would only use Carbon fiber, Kevlar (49) and epoxy resin and vacuum bag everything.

With that said, I've been with you guys for over about 10 years now, You've been a great group, and supportive, as well as being local, so questions or assistance has been accessible. I would certainly look into group buys with a great discount if enough people were interested. So is there enough of an interest? are people racing their cars, have dented panels they would love to upgrade or just overall have a new toy to add on their car?

Doubtful.

Maybe one or two guys with deep pockets and a attachment to the car but otherwise, 4th gens are owned by kids these days with chapange dreams and beer budgets.

Good ideas but as you know, the cost will dictate the market size. Dealing with body panels, I assume the cost will be significant and having them painted/finished will be even more $. If these are going to be cosmetic upgrade pieces (wider fenders, complete new design, etc), then you may be on to something but IMO you will get a lot of interest, but not many sales. Replacing a panel of X material with CF while both looking identical won't justify the price in my opinion.

I'm not trying to deter you from moving ahead but there are fewer and fewer folks willing to dump money into the 4th gen platform. Sure you will see plenty of guys dropping in a new engine with a big $ drivetrain setup but I see the market for CF body parts being slim. The only name I see pitching body parts for 4th gens is 6LE and I think he has a tough time moving those pieces.

How would it compare to 6le in quality and price?

Main reason why 6LE Parts partnered up with RK Sport and outsourced most of the work, the demand was there but when the time came to pony up, no one came up with money. Great idea but I don't see much money involved as the entire process is so time consuming!

I can see small parts maybe selling to replace components that break regular like in the interior.

Make a nice OEM style dashpad for a fraction of the cost of the OEM piece. I bet that will sell very well. Someone made them but the fitment was so so and texture looked to be a bit off.

What do you need in order to make a mold of a part?
Does the donor part get destroyed?
Could you make a part as big as a hatch?

Blackbird/Sweet/Arock - I happened to look on his sight, those prices are a little high. 1,100 for a hoop, 2400 (1200 ea) for doors? I want to know how many layers he's using, because the main cost in composite parts is the R&D. I doubt his molds are made from CF, and if so, good on him, but 99% of molds are fiberglass. There are pros and cons using it, but outside of F1, top tier racing teams, the military, and a airliners, without having an autoclave, you don't need to worry about the expansion rates really when curing. This might be why everyone walked away when he came out with these products.

Blackbird - I thought about dash pads a while ago after mine splintered when I turned the heat on on a cold day, but two things I realized would be a problem. One problem is the vents. They are so thin that I would have to redesign them to handle being pulled out without twisting or getting damaged, so if people were looking for O.E. look, the vents would be different. Also, the dimples that the plastic has would make the finish look like crap, like dirt got into the epoxy, and if I sand down the pad to be smooth ,I fear the piece will reflect the light into the windshield, making visual problems, though the solution is to just paint it. it could be done, and I'm not sure what new pads are going for, but since the ABS is already thin, not many layers would be needed, and could handle a lot more abuse with chassis and dash flex, and they'd never crack.

V- I would need a perfect hatch, no scratches, scrapes, gouges, etc, plus it would need to be on a straight body vehicle. I must first "egg crate the part from the outside so it doesn't flex when taking off, then put an egg crate on the inside and remove the outside egg crate, that allows the part to not become twisted when working on it. If done properly, a donor part may be just as good as originally used. Many companies lay a layer of wax and PVA, then pull a mold off of it, and put it right back on the car, though I couldn't say 100% it'll be fine. A slight rip in the PVA may grab the paint, taking some with it, but I prefer to lay coats of epoxy primer down, and sand it to a few thousand grit just to be sure, so I prefer parts that aren't important unless they are rare, then I have to work with the paint on it. As far as a hatch, sure, it can be done. That's a two part piece where two separate molds must be made, one for the outside, and one for the backside, then both pieces are put together with a special two part epoxy glue.

This is a great idea.

Dashpad might be a bit tough to do but building in-demand reproduction parts seems like it would have a much stronger market than custom stuff.

You can probably poke around and see what breaks the most frequently and what repro stuff is the most expensive and attack that way.

Maybe start with a CF radio bezel?

If can make the design aesthetically pleasing, I don't think anyone will care that it looks different. I'm sure folks would appreciate the better design as long as it looks good. ABS in the right color and texture would be fine by me. I think new OEM dash pads go for around $400 new (feel free to correct me if wrong). If you could make a piece for right under $200, I'm sure plenty of folks would jump right on board. I know I would.

I'll certainly look into it, but it would need enough people willing to purchase. I think the Camaro and FIrebird ones are different, and the 93-97 and 98-02 are different, correct?

Ya, 4 pads. I would explore 5th gens and newer vettes personally. Don't risk more than you can afford to lose too. The whole aftermarket and used car sales are down and aren't coming back soon in my opinion.

97 cars got the newer interior with the 98-02 for body Camaro and Firebirds IIRC.

^^ Agreed.

I'm agreeing too, it's looking that way. It's like 3rd gens when I was in high school, could pick one up for a few hundred, hell my friend didn't even want his anymore, gave it away for free, but now the 5.0 and 5.7's are starting to make a come back, not 1st or early 2nd gen prices, but the market isn't ready for prices to rise for 4th gens yet.

I'd be in for reproduced items like heater vents, and accessories like window switches, center consoles, door handles, dash pads made in carbon fiber would look pretty cool instead of just wrapping them.