Recent Changes, Further Explained
 

After many conversations on AIM and through PM's with several members it has become clear that there may be some misunderstandings as to the reasons that the recent rules decisions and revisions were made.

First thing we would like to make clear is that the decisions were the result of suggestions made by several members. The suggestions came from a variety of sources (such as active members, lurkers, and passing visitors) covering a wide variety of topics such as language and post content that they had concerns about.
They stated their point of view and provided a lot of supporting information for the changes suggested. Although there were opportunities to present opposing view points, nothing convincing was presented and the vast majority of commentary was in support of the changes.

For the club to continue growing some changes needed to be made to not only attract members, but to avoid driving them away once they are here. It was a lot of fun being a small clique with big ideas, but now the ideas have outgrown what the clique can support on it's own.

One of the other issues that we have run into when seeking sponsorship and advertising support for the forums and club events is that many vendors and corporations are understandably image concious. To be associated with a club forum that is allowed to run with a "war zone" mentality does not benefit their corporate image or customer base.

From day one the club has been supported out of pocket by Justin and myself. This did not seem like a bad plan when we were not expecting the club to ever be very large, but that has all changed. To keep up with the demands of time and money that is associated with a club of this size have reached the point that too many personal sacrifices would be required to reasonable move any further forward.

All of these reason together have culminated in the recent changes to the forum rules. We certainly understand the views and sentiment of those who prefered the open rules we applied previously. Our hope is that you will all continue to particpate in the club forums, events, and fun that can be found here.

Many of the benefits of the new rules are already starting to show. The number of active users, posts, and threads per day, as well as the interest from potential site and event sponsors, have been steadily increasing since the rules roll out a few weeks ago.

Thank you all for supporting the NJFBOA. Please keep your suggestions coming in. Your ideas and assistance are the only way we can be sure the club site and events continue to improve and grow.

Thank you

Justin Tim
'Tru2Chevy' 'NJSPEEDER'

Please feel free to comment, however we ask that all posts be mature and any suggestions or criticisms be constructive. All posts in this thread not adhering to this will removed.

not to be sarcastic...but your going to censor a few naughty words...but having weight nazi under you user name...come on dude...thats 2 hits right there...fats and jews...even thought it don't bother me , being i'm not exactly in tip top...but still...u can't break you own rules and expect us not to...

Maybe a reason a handful of the "ancient" members / somewhat big posters on here are slowly disappearing?

:2cents:

This forum used to be much more exciting before people started being crybabies, thats what seperated NJFBOA from others, in such a good way, which is really why I dont post much anymore, because that feeling is gone. Unless Im missing something, I never really noticed a "warzone" here. Foul language... i use it alot. The basic "curse" words are found in PG-13 movies, and in order to register to the site, you HAVE to be at least 13 years of age... I dunno, it seems like the rules around here seem a little too tight. I feel like I log into a Christian forum instead of an Fbody forum. Take my "postcount" for instance... when I had my injury back in August 06... i hit the 4200 mark... 6 months have gone and I only posted a little over 250 since then (classified post count being removed too included, which is indeed bull too...) , and Im sitting on my ass all day!!

The people who cry about this stuff (I can name a cpl, but Ill keep it disclosed) practically BEG to get picked on, by posting how their day went, or doing somethign stupid with their car, or that they choked on a pea-pod and asking for advice on how to remove it (just an example, not to be serious).

I only visit this site nowadays to "lurk" and see if there are any Friday events happening here in North Jersey... thats about it.

Like I said, just my :2cents:

:werd:

+1. a lot of good points...

a lot of good points but i beleive what tim and justin will say is that is why we have the basement now.... anything goes for the most part if most of the big posters joined the basement (reguardless of how they feel bout paying for it) it would keep everyone happy and allow more freedom to post nws stuff then we already had

*edit* only real thing we will miss is making fun of the retarted posts that are just asking to be made fun of cuz the people who make those posts tend to not be 18

"Weight Nazi" refers to his cars, not member's waistlines.

- Justin

if I can control my mouth ANYONE can!

Quoted for a ton of good points.

As far as I'm concerned the bottom line here is that Tim and Justin have painted themselves into a corner regarding the club's "expenses". While domain names and hosting fees need to be paid, a variety of things that have put them into the position they're in were just wasteful spending. Take the Nats for example. I don't know of anyone that supported the idea to have 46 different race classes, and 65 different show awards. All these classes needed awards which i believe Tim and Justin paid out of pocket. Simply eliminating a ton of needless classes would have saved them money, and for anyone that attended the ECFBN, it would have lengthened the racing beyond 2 rounds.

As for the debt involved with t-shirt, hoodie, and calender sales, a pre-order could have been arranged, which would eliminate any out-of-pocket expenses for the admins. However, they chose to spend the money and order them without any preorders.

Basically my opinion is that you and Justin dug your own graves here, and making a ton of nazi rules in order to beg for sponsorship is not the only way out. Be smarter with your money, don't mandate check boxes before someone can post.

but how was i suposed to know that...i'm not saying he should chang it...just the rules are way too strick...

Rules don't apply to people in power, you should've learned that from politics.

so far rule number one seems to be: Don't argue with anyone from SS squad otherwise your post will get deleted.

Shouldnt have to pay to curse lmao. *Not to be rude about not donating* ....

If you were unsure of what it meant, or offended by it, you should have contacted him directly in the first place.

Please provide examples and any ideas that you have regarding the rules. Simply stating that they are too strict does absolutely nothing to help your case.

- Justin

The rules apply to everyone. We created this thread to welcome suggestions and criticisms from everyone, but we ask that they be offered in a constructive manner, or else they will be deleted.

- Justin

Nothing was designed for a "pay to curse" format. The new rules would be the same with or without the new Power Member program. They were created for the reasons outlined above....not to encourage people to give us money for the privaledge.

The Basement was created purely as one more perk to offer to members who wanted and were able to help support the club financially.

- Justin

Tsar, do you have anything constructive to add to this discussion? You certainly seem intelligent enough to engage in a useful dialog regarding the topic, yet to my knowledge you have not. Regardless of whether I agree with it, at least j0n offered up some actual constructive criticism involving the costs of the club.

Back on topic. So, what exactly are these ‘nazi’ rules you all speak of, and are the now oft quoted ‘good points’ really that good?

*You’re being asked not to use language most people would not use in front of their mothers or grandmothers. Is your vocabulary so stunted that without the use of ‘cuss’ words, you would have no ability to express yourself in writing? Are you that verbally challenged? I’d like to note that some of our verbally challenged members are often the first to jump on other members with perceived communication deficiencies, such as spelling & grammar or knowledge shortfalls.

*You are being asked not to attack other members, no matter how stupid you feel the post is. Just ignoring those posts would be too hard, I suppose? Or if it a technical post, is it that hard to disagree in a civil manner? Does the ‘handful of ancient members’ feel it is their duty to police the club and weed out the members they deem ‘undesirable’? Based on my experience here, it appears so. Why is it that when someone voices a different opinion, they are crybabies? I’d like to note that the group that enjoys doling out said punishment is rather quick to call other people Nazis. I find humor in this obviously absurd juxtaposition of thoughts and actions.

What else, did I miss anything? Oh yeah, (only) admins & mods are hypocrites. Right. :rolleyes:

Last I looked, no one has any inherent rights to be here, nor are they forced to be here. It is a personal decision. The sense of entitlement I get out of this general topic (not just this thread) is overwhelming and distasteful. No one is entitled to anything. Everything has a cost – be it money and/or time. By time I mean helping with events, building the club, and conducting yourself in a manner that is within club guidelines - guidelines members are asked to agree with before they can move forward.

So, based on all this, is this a growing car club for everybody, or is it a social clique for a small group that will let you in only if they feel you are worthy?

My hope is that it is a car club, and one wants to cast as wide a member net as possible. It can only benefit everyone. A wider active member base will make it easier for the club to support itself, such as this website, events, etc. Plus more members means more personal opportunities. From help with the car, to borrowing tools, maybe even help in a job search. I laughed when people were complaining about race drivers who got their job because of who they know, because that is how life is. You can either chose to know more people or seclude yourself. You never know who knows whom. Just because of experience, I’m not sure some of the younger guys know the real value of true ‘networking’ – not MySpace networking.

In order to continue moving in that direction, the message board, which is the club’s primary public face, needs to go a bit more mainstream. I don’t see anything being asked of a member that is not asked for at many other car sites that cater to a wide audience. You can choose to be a contributing member or not – it is your money and/or time. Your choice. If you do not want to contribute either, then perhaps you need to find another place on the web to hang your entitled hat.

I look forward to reading added constructive comments regarding this topic.

(one lunch hour down the tubes…)

Well this is what I feel. I came to this site looking for fellow members of F-bodys and american muscle. language to me means nothing. This is a free country and we should be able to express ourselves openly. Cursing is a part of life. If you need sponsers to raise money, then obviously to me that the club has grown out your control. maybe it is time to reconsider and rethink the money costs about running event sponsered buy NJFBOA. Since this club is solely a personal choice to join, and solely personal choice to read and post on the boards,you cant force people to follow rules that shouldnt not apply to anyone. For instance this is a public forum and is covered under the 1st amendment for free speech. These people who join this forum have the right to curse or have the right to argue about any topic that a member has posted, without personal attacks. I feel the stricter the rules the more people you let slip through your fingers. Already you have people complaining about the stricter rules. so is it worth it enforcing it just to comply with a bunch of crybabies??

So he is what i suggest, if you want stricter rules make the forum private and make every member donate something to post and then enforce the rules.

Make it an adult only board, when registering make the min age 18, which it should be because you shouldnt even be driving a F-body or any car before then anyways.

Go back to the way they were. to get back the people that you lost and losing now.

You cant force people to follow rules that they dont want to follow. If you are changing, enforcing the rules because you need more money, then you should look elsewhere then enforcing some Nazi like rules on a public forums, because doing that isnt going to help the current situation that you are in.

I hope this makes sense because i know I prob get ripped for something :)

The whole cursing thing is ridiculous. Maybe back in the old days it was unacceptable. Nowadays it's even in PG13 movies. Hell, i mean heck even in todays military it is the norm. I never used the F-bomb as much as i do now before i joined the military. And yes i would use the same words in front of my mother. Why? because she is not and uptight person. Where do you think i learned to love cars and motorcycles??? My Dad and my Mom. Amen, no pun intended about this moving towards a Prude forum where "adult words are not allowed. We all are adults right?

I'd really like to know what's so crazy about the rules... every place you go to in your daily life has rules, too... let me run through these


Not a war forum... fair enough, flame wars are retarded


No personal attacks... only trouble comes from them


Offensive language.... this is where everyone's problems seem to lie, I'll come back to it


Conduct yourselves in a mature manner.... hey, most people here need practice with that anyway.


No porn - google it in, I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for


Report posts... I know that IMO getting a third party to mediate any potential confrontations is the easiest, least stressful and most fair solution



So with the language.... honestly, what's the big deal. It's very rare for something to completely and totally warrant a necessity to swear... if you think about it for a minute, the only reason people curse is for: lack of a better word, while thinking of what they'll say next, or for emphasis. If you wanna disagree here's examples...


"That's f****** up," "I'll "f*****.... take your f****** head and f******.... beat the s*** out of you," or "Jesus f****** christ, I wanna throw a diet can through that ricer's window"


Honestly, the less cursing you do the more intelligent you come off as to other people, whether the intelligence is actually there or not.



I know I myself would rather be part of something big, a name people know, which has a good reputation and awesome events than a bunch of people just sitting around doing the same stuff week after week, month after month. And who here wouldn't want to have shots at magazine coverage and big cash and trophy prizes?

I've made a lot of good friends through this club and had a lot of fun times, and I sure as hell am thankful for that. So the way I see it is, the more the club grows, the better things get for everybody. Nobody's saying you can't still hang out with the people you always have, no one's saying you're forced to invite 4578278948325634 people to your apartment for a party as opposed to the normal 10 or 15. I guess I just see the benefits of more publicity, more people, more opportunities outweighing cursing somebody out in every post.


You've gotta make sacrifices in life for anything you do, and that's the bottom line.

2005 = 4 brackets and 1 heads up class
2006 = 4 foot brake brackets, 1 electronics bracket, and 1 heads up class
2007 = 2 foot brake brackets, 1 electronics bracket, and 3 heads up classes

that is not a whole lot of classes. the first year weather, or at least anticipated weather that never came certainly effected the turn out. the bad thunderstorms that were supposed to be around all day never materialized. in 2005 we also didn't give a dime to the track, they merely collected at the gate and concession stand and let us use the facility to run our event. island even was kind enough to put up the trophies for us.

last year i made some mistakes in getting the word out, and attendance suffered. i am not too proud to admit that my mistake was persuing sponsorship to try to put up prizes so much that i neglected to take time promoting to make sure people would be there to enjoy teh show. regardless, we had a good time, and once again island only collected gate and concessions money, adn we sort of split the cost fo trophies, island was stil kind enough to pick up more than half of that tab as well though.
for 2007 i looked to other for a lot of advice and i am going at things with a much more balanced approach. we opened up the racing rules by reducing the number of bracket classes and adding to the heads up racing that everyone seems anxious to see more of. along with the prize fund that the club is developing, we hope to see a large improvement in attendence and the quality of racing.

all three years the car show has cost little more than a few sheets of paper and a trip to the dollar store for some frames. island dragway, much like in the drag racing, has been kind enough to provide the class and best of show trophies for us.
with such a small investment it seemed the wiser decision to include as many prizes, and therefore winners as possible into the car show. the more people win something, the better the odds are of evryone having a good time and walking away with something they can be proud of about thier car.



we have offered pre-orders on al three of the merch items you mentioned. the lesson of which was that a lot of people say they are interested in purchasing items, less than half of those who are interested are willing/able to preorder, the greatest number seem unwilling to buy until they see the prduct first hand, and even fewer seem to have any money on them the first time they see it and actualy decide to buy.
without sacrificing the quality of the products we are willing to put the club name and logo on, our only choice has been to front the money and allow the process of being paid back run it's natural course.

the rules were not made for the sole purpose of "begging" for anything. they are the result of requests from many members. when this topic was brought up,the members making the suggestions provided many examples of how the refinement of the rules and the evolution of the club would help to insure more growth and good times for everyone who participates in the forums and club activities.
the need for sponsorship to help the club continue to grow is a contributing factor that was a part of the decision making process, but not the only reason that was considered.
believe me, if justin or i had the money to support a clubthis size for the rest of forever out of pocket, we woudl never bother looking for sponsors. but that isn't the reality of the situation, and we see no need to lie about it or cover any of our reasons for coming to these decisions a secret.

the user agreement that everyone clicks 'yes' on before entering into conversation on an open forum is actually a legal agreement to abide by the rules of the forum. by agreeing to the rules you are not giving up any right to free expression, which is what is actually protected by the first amendment, you are merely agreeing to do so in the manner prescribed.
basicaly, argue all you want. if it stays on topic, doesn't turn personal, and doesn't involved the language outlines as unapproved in the user agreement, then it wil be left alone.
the only other time we get invovled in editing/deleting/locking topics or posts is when other members report them to us.

Just for the record, no it is not. That is not what freedom of speech laws cover. Technically, this is privately owned property. Just like a TV station can sensor what it airs. Just because it is on the web doesn’t make it ‘public’. You personally have no rights to free speech within this space. In fact, you agreed to sign away even more rights by agreeing to the site Terms & Conditions.

Um, the saying ‘curses like a sailor’ is rather old. :) I personally ‘curse like a sailor’, but I curb it when necessary.

I really can’t believe one can get so upset about being asked not to use ‘bad’ words. Really? Is it that taxing? That is the big complaint?

I am glad I caught this.
1 thing I always liked about this site was some of the freedom in regards to a few cuss words here and there and some of you guys have posted hilarious jokes, pictures ect..
But other than that the enviroment here can get a little bit brutal.
I have 2 friends of mine in Jersey here that work for a Aftermarket company.
They took a few looks at the site and said screw that site it looks like a bunch of kids arguing.
I understand the New Jersey attitude and I understand this is the Internet
it isn't serious business.
But for a site like this that that attempt's to do more in regard's to Monthly meets, Track and dyno days it isn't such a friendly environment at times to certain members.
And it is exactly why I pass on Meets and Event's regardless if it is only a mile up the street from my house.

i hope the recent changes make you feel more comfortable and that you decide to attend a few of our functions.

to be honest, i have never had a problem with throwing in some flagrant language, i mean if posts are being deleted because there is a curse in it, then its a touch out of hand. Ive never personally had that happen so I cant comment or stand up for people that it possibly has or has not happened to. I dont really see the big deal. So there are some stars after the first letter, there are plenty of other forums that censor profanities anyway. all of the other "new rules" just come out of common courtesy or common sense... the way i see it is, i dont post that often so it doesnt make any difference to me, additionally if the new rules put such a strain on you that you cant abide, i would go somewhere else. finally, in terms of the paying members getting an extra forum, everyone should be happy that they dont restrict signature features, avatar abilities or w/e else they are able to restrict to only financially supporting members

The only time a post would be deleted based on foul language would be if there was no other meaning to the post besides posting a cuss word or phrase

- Justin