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-   -   Copper or alumium fuel lines (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58858)

WildBillyT 02-05-2012 05:15 PM
Copper or alumium fuel lines
 
Looks good! But isn't copper for fuel lines a big no-no (unless its copper nickel)?




ADMIN EDIT: Off topic conversation moved from project area by BonzoHansen

drmrman 02-05-2012 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT (Post 808701)
Looks good! But isn't copper for fuel lines a big no-no (unless its copper nickel)?
If you are running a 50-70psi system I wouldn't.... But considering the fuel pump only makes 3-5psi I'm not too worried :)

Featherburner 02-05-2012 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT (Post 808701)
Looks good! But isn't copper for fuel lines a big no-no (unless its copper nickel)?
Yup, it work hardens and cracks very easily.

drmrman 02-05-2012 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Featherburner (Post 808704)
Yup, it work hardens and cracks very easily.



Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrman (Post 808702)
If you are running a 50-70psi system I wouldn't.... But considering the fuel pump only makes 3-5psi I'm not too worried :)
....

WildBillyT 02-05-2012 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrman (Post 808706)
....
Psi doesn't matter with work hardening.

drmrman 02-05-2012 10:32 PM
If there is no work being done, hardening is a non issue. All lines will have a rubber hose somewhere in line to releave any vibrations.

I would never run them on a modern fuel inj. System. But in a low psi system properly routed. There will be no issue. Looks trick and will function flawlessly.

WildBillyT 02-06-2012 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrman (Post 808734)
If there is no work being done, hardening is a non issue. All lines will have a rubber hose somewhere in line to releave any vibrations.

I would never run them on a modern fuel inj. System. But in a low psi system properly routed. There will be no issue. Looks trick and will function flawlessly.
Last post I'll make, I promise. :wink:

If you want the look buy copper plated steel line and do that. Regular soft copper is a bad idea. Has nothing to do with pressure. Any vibration will slightly weaken the copper until you get a failure, even if you try to isolate it with rubber sleeving. There's a reason why nobody uses copper for fuel lines anymore, I think Olds was the last one back in the 60's. And if you are using compression fittings those will most likely be your point of failure. If you have GOT to have straight up copper than at least double flare instead of using compression fittings.

Not trying to badger... just stay safe. Just because it looks good and seals now doesn't mean it will hold in the long term.

sweetbmxrider 02-06-2012 09:15 AM
Quote:
Sunny, my girlfriend helped me finish making the copper Lines from the tank to the fuel pump! She did an excellent job! After one lesson on how to dbl flare and one lesson on how to use a tube bender, she was making a line with compound bends! Hot rodder in the making.
I'm not for the copper either even if it does look cool but you've been preached to by the best.

BonzoHansen 02-06-2012 10:40 AM
I really like your truck, love the flat head

Your truck that will probably get 100 miles a year, so you might be ok. I wouldn't want to find out. But it is probably what they did back in the day if you are looking for the period correct thing.

For the record, here is what I found in a Chevy Service Manual a while back
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/NoCopper.jpg

Page 5-7
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../NoCopper2.jpg

drmrman 02-06-2012 04:56 PM
It is period correct and it's what I am using. Thank you everyone for your concern. All connections are double flared. Compression fittings are ugly and have no business on a car.

The truck will hopefully see over 3000 miles a year. First planned trip is in April. 400 miles round trip. See if its ready in time.

drmrman 02-06-2012 04:58 PM
Aluminum was my other option... But I guess thats no good to use by everyones standards here right? Even though that's what they use on a majority of the hydraulics on aircraft...

sweetbmxrider 02-06-2012 05:34 PM
Don't get upset, we're looking out for your safety.

LTb1ow 02-06-2012 06:42 PM
Copper lines would look pretty cool

S.J.SLEEPER 02-06-2012 06:44 PM
F' copper. Use aluminum

Fast92RS 02-06-2012 06:45 PM
I have worked on many old gas trucks from the 70's and earlier eras and I have seen many of them have copper fuels lines. They are even on many old firetrucks that I have worked on and they have taken a beating and there has been no issue. They were used as fuel and coolant lines and in some cases oil feed lines. I guess it also has to do with the wall thickness of the copper. I don't thinks its a big deal for a low psi carburetored application.

BonzoHansen 02-06-2012 06:48 PM
I moved this here because it is a good conversation and better deserves to be in tech.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrman (Post 808734)
If there is no work being done, hardening is a non issue.
That is not what work hardened means. Simple vibration is what does it. Engine running, driving, etc. And PSI is not part of the issue here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrman (Post 808901)
It is period correct and it's what I am using. Thank you everyone for your concern. All connections are double flared. Compression fittings are ugly and have no business on a car.

The truck will hopefully see over 3000 miles a year. First planned trip is in April. 400 miles round trip. See if its ready in time.
IMO you are asking for a fire if you plan to drive it that much. Too many people much smarter than I am have told me that. If that is a risk you are willing to take then fine. But be aware of the potential consequences. I think there is a reason GM said do not do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrman (Post 808902)
Aluminum was my other option... But I guess thats no good to use by everyones standards here right? Even though that's what they use on a majority of the hydraulics on aircraft...
I'm not a fan of aluminum on a street car either, but not for the same reasons. It's abrasion/puncture resistance issues. I have personally had an aluminum line - an OE coolant line - punctured by road debris. It didn't even mark the steel floor it hit too. So I have BTDT. There is a reason OE fuel lines were steel with rock guard (that spring covering). The newer 'plastic' (not the right term) are also fairly strong and covered in sensitive areas.

I am fairly certain that the aluminum grade used in airlines is not the same as the stuff you buy at jegs, etc. And those lines are not exposed, they are inside the fuselage, wing, etc. So from where I stand it is a poor comparison.

Now if you fuel lines are totally out of harms way - which means not exposed anywhere under the car, sure you can do that. But not a lot of vehicles are setup that way.

//<86TA>\\ 02-06-2012 07:20 PM
another option, Cunifer. A copper nickle alloy, DOT approved, has the cool bronze color, is rust/corrosion proof, flares like butter and is rated for hydraulic and fuel systems. Not cheap, but its great stuff.

http://www.fedhillusa.com/

also, copper lines will corrode to hell , especially with the chemicals put on the road these days. Not a good choice, and the same for aluminum. For a race only car, sure aluminum can work, but anything on the street it would be a bad choice.

BonzoHansen 02-06-2012 07:25 PM
HP, that is this stuff right?
http://brakequip.com/tools.html

drmrman 02-06-2012 08:34 PM
This is getting completely out of hand. And even more so out of context considering this is not a "modern" vehicle.

drmrman 02-06-2012 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen (Post 808977)
I moved this here because it is a good conversation and better deserves to be in tech.


That is not what work hardened means. Simple vibration is what does it. Engine running, driving, etc. And PSI is not part of the issue here.


IMO you are asking for a fire if you plan to drive it that much. Too many people much smarter than I am have told me that. If that is a risk you are willing to take then fine. But be aware of the potential consequences. I think there is a reason GM said do not do it.


I'm not a fan of aluminum on a street car either, but not for the same reasons. It's abrasion/puncture resistance issues. I have personally had an aluminum line - an OE coolant line - punctured by road debris. It didn't even mark the steel floor it hit too. So I have BTDT. There is a reason OE fuel lines were steel with rock guard (that spring covering). The newer 'plastic' (not the right term) are also fairly strong and covered in sensitive areas.

I am fairly certain that the aluminum grade used in airlines is not the same as the stuff you buy at jegs, etc. And those lines are not exposed, they are inside the fuselage, wing, etc. So from where I stand it is a poor comparison.

Now if you fuel lines are totally out of harms way - which means not exposed anywhere under the car, sure you can do that. But not a lot of vehicles are setup that way.
Can't wait for a huge flaming car fire. I'll be sure to post pics of updates when I rebuild. I'll also be sure to use plastic lines when I do the 2nd full resto.

drmrman 02-06-2012 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast92RS (Post 808976)
I have worked on many old gas trucks from the 70's and earlier eras and I have seen many of them have copper fuels lines. They are even on many old firetrucks that I have worked on and they have taken a beating and there has been no issue. They were used as fuel and coolant lines and in some cases oil feed lines. I guess it also has to do with the wall thickness of the copper. I don't thinks its a big deal for a low psi carburetored application.
Thank you. Everyone posting otherwise is over anylizing this whole set up....

No ***** there are better more safe mediums I could use. But this is also not a volvo with a 5 star crash rating. I know what I'm building. I know what I will be driving. I can't wait to take this thing all over! First trip is to RI and have another one planned to Missouri at the end of the summer!! Woo! Cant wait.

BonzoHansen 02-06-2012 10:17 PM
I'm going til close this for now as the points have been made. My dad had a saying in situations like this. There's the right way, the wrong way and my way and dammit don't confuse me with the facts.


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