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Originally Posted by EchoMirage
and just what kind of SKILLSET do you think youre going to get out of someone whos making $10/hr?? just because maybe you saw some people slacking off or taking advantage of free time doesnt mean EVERY union does it. many, many union men take pride in thier work, including me and alot of guys i work with. i have personally seen, first hand, the differance in quality of work between scab and union. ive had to go and FIX the things scabs have screwed up before. theyre not trained. they dont go through any kind of schooling or apprenticeship program. theyre not going to care if they lose their job, because anyone can get a $10/hr job. you think that goes the same for someone making UAW wages? he making money, benefits, retirement, plans for the future. he WILL do a good job because he doesnt want to lose the job he has.
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Anyone who has a shred of pride and self respect will do a good job irregardless of their pay, if not, they don't deserve the job they have and should find work elsewhere. Is that idealistic, maybe? But fat paychecks are no guarantee to a job well done or to happiness. Do you agree that any given job has an upper limit as to what the job can and should pay? There are slackers in every walk of life, union and private sector, no doubt. I am sure that within your hall there are guys who are seen as top dogs because they bust ass and do good work and make it happen everyday. I am also sure that there are guys in your hall that don't quite live up to that standard and they suffer for it.
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you want lower priced labor. you want mexicans from under the fence? some punk kind fresh out of highschool who just barely works to have money for getting drunk or stoned? one of the first things hitler and stalin did once in power was to dissolve unions. is that the kind of thinking youre coming from?
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NOPE. That is not my line of thinking at all. Hitler? Stalin? That's far too slippery a slope to go near. What I am saying is that when a person or group (union or otherwise for that matter) reaches the upper pay limit for what the job can reasonably pay, they need to accept that fact and either be content or upgrade their SKILLSET so they can be more valuable to the company they work for and with that will come greater rewards. But for that same person or group to demand greater pay to point that it cripples the company's ability to be competative in the market place? That is wrong, that is counterproductive. That is what I believe the UAW has done to its own.
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no matter what job you have now, there is NOTHING keeping your boss or employer from firing your ass and bringing in a mexican for $5/hr, give him a training video to watch, and send him off. i tell the same to my friend who works for seimens. no matter what training, degrees, experience he has, there is nothing guaranteeing his job from going to someone who will work for less. he has no say, no voice in the work force. the same goes for a guy i went to college with. hes now a surveyor. there are union and non union surveyors. he was recently liscened. so, he wanted more money, and threatened to quit if he didnt get it. his boss gave it to him.......you know why? because if he didnt, he could walk right out the door and join the surveyors union and make the same money with better conditions. if there was no surveyors union, looking in from the outside, his boss would have told him to go screw, and he'd find somone else willing to work for less money.
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It's funny that you use this example. I am a land surveyor/cadd operator. Could my boss fire me, sure. Could he replace me and my SKILLSET for significantly less that what he is paying me now, NOPE. If he did terminate my employment, I'd have interviews within a week and be GAINFULLY employed within a month. Why? My SKILLSET, my work ethic, my ability. I show up and work my ass off everyday and get the job done, go the extra when necessary without being told. That's my job. And your buddy who just got his license could do the very same thing, either in the private sector or with the union. Why? His SKILLSET, and yes his boss knows this. Is it the union that gives your buddy this leverage? NO. That would be an insult to your friend. Its his SKILLSET that gives him the leverage. The union is one of the places he could go and be gainfully employed, but it is not the only game in town. There are plenty of firms in the private sector that would bid for his services. He is even better positioned than me because he has his license (I am still working towards mine). In a few years he will be able to name his price if he can't already. Not just anyone can show up and be land surveyor and ever fewer can show up and sign the plan. Just the same that anyone can't walk onto a job site and be a carpenter or a pipe fitter or a boilermaker.
Its the SKILLSET that set's all these people apart. I am a firm believer that if you have a strong SKILLSET and a strong work ethic, you will always be gainfully employed, union or otherwise. I think you would agree with that?
See you at the Meadowlands on the the 9th
Chris