Contact your reps! (not a politcal thread)

[Dark_Knight7096]

The state of NJ has a bill, A1282, in the legislature right now to reform current NJ CCW laws. It will turn NJ from a May-Issue state into a Shall-Issue state. If you believe in this awesome follow the instructions on the flyer and write to your representatives, if not, hey whatever you have that right to do so.

The entire language of the bill can be viewed on this website, instead of going straight to contacting your reps, you can search bill A1282 and view the entire bill in .PDF, but I warn, it is a BORING read.

[slugger27nj]

There's a better chance of us having our property taxes reduced by 95% than that bill ever passing in this state.

[Dark_Knight7096]

and thinking like that and not taking any action will ensure that nothing like this ever passes.

[Mike]

eh i carry

[Ian]

I'll write my rep. I'd love to have an excuse to buy a holster

p.s. mike, I hate you

[JerzyIroc]

My ADD wont allow me to read something that long and boring. What are the qualifications of being able to carry a concealed weapon?

[Knipps]

Reading long boring statements

[Fast92RS]

Can you post the link please?

[Savage_Messiah]

I never saw the point... around me nobody carries and generally the only crime around here is speeding...

[slugger27nj]

Originally Posted by Dark_Knight7096

and thinking like that and not taking any action will ensure that nothing like this ever passes.

That thinking has nothing to do with why it will never pass, it's just simply reality. Just look at the bill sponsors, only 1 of the 5 is a democrat..that right there is the kiss of death. Even if there was a push to get this passed, as soon as the anti-gun nuts started chirping (and that's inevitable), it'll be all but over with.

Originally Posted by Fast92RS

Can you post the link please?

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bi...00/1282_I1.HTM

[JerzyIroc]

I dont mean to turn this into anything political, but not all democrats are antigun. Actually most arent antigun. The problem is when you live somewhere like jersey city, newark, camden or places with higher crime rates, there HAS to be a level of control that both protects the people as well as protects peoples right to own guns. I'm all for guns, but living in jersey city and living in whitehouse nj for example is completly different. Therefore if there is going to be a bill passed that allows people to carry a gun there MUST be very strict requirments. Not everyone should be able to own a gun or carry gun. The popular saying "guns dont kill people people kill people" is true only to a certain extent. Give a crazy person a spoon and a gun which is gonna kill first? Point being the right to own and carry a gun may be our right and im 100000% for it. However, there MUST be very strict levels of requirments as well as enforcement to protect the people who dont carry. Maybe one day this week ill read the bill and if there are very strict rules then hell ill do my best to help it pass!!

[Tru2Chevy]

Jerzy, every state that I know of with concealed carry laws has pretty strict requirements for being allowed to do so (even Texas).

It usually requires an extensive background check, classes, and lots of target practice to be sure that you actually know how to use the gun that you get to carry around.

- Justin

[JerzyIroc]

You sure about Texas?? lol j/k. If that's the case then I'm all for it. I have a few friends in the jc and local govern in JC. I'm sure i cant do a damn thing but ill see what's their view on it. I know one of my friends who's a councilman actually fought for one of the two gun stores in jersey city to stay open last year when people tried to shut it down. i wonder what he thinks about this....

[Fast92RS]

Ok I sent the email but I know for a fact my rep is anti-gun because of the bills he has sponsored for strict gun control.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by JerzyIroc

I dont mean to turn this into anything political, but not all democrats are antigun. Actually most arent antigun. The problem is when you live somewhere like jersey city, newark, camden or places with higher crime rates, there HAS to be a level of control that both protects the people as well as protects peoples right to own guns. I'm all for guns, but living in jersey city and living in whitehouse nj for example is completly different. Therefore if there is going to be a bill passed that allows people to carry a gun there MUST be very strict requirments. Not everyone should be able to own a gun or carry gun. The popular saying "guns dont kill people people kill people" is true only to a certain extent. Give a crazy person a spoon and a gun which is gonna kill first? Point being the right to own and carry a gun may be our right and im 100000% for it. However, there MUST be very strict levels of requirments as well as enforcement to protect the people who dont carry. Maybe one day this week ill read the bill and if there are very strict rules then hell ill do my best to help it pass!!

Just to play devils advocate here, it has been shown that 1/2 the time more guns are available, violence increases and the other 1/2, violence decreases. So your theory is moot. Furthermore, the amount of handgun ownership has risen drastically while overall crime rate, suicide, and hand gun homicide has remained the same. Again, your theory, moot.

[jims69camaro]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

Just to play devils advocate here, it has been shown that 1/2 the time more guns are available, violence increases and the other 1/2, violence decreases. So your theory is moot. Furthermore, the amount of handgun ownership has risen drastically while overall crime rate, suicide, and hand gun homicide has remained the same. Again, your theory, moot.

first of all, look up devil's advocate. you need to know the rules in order to play.

then, try looking at the states that have carry laws and see which have strict rules concerning the weapons. furthermore, the amount of ILLEGAL handgun ownership has risen, and those weapons are used for ILLEGAL means. the weapon, with a trigger lock, that is locked in the safe with the ammunition in a different place is a legal weapon and does not add to crime statistics. the illegal weapon does. people can and do buy weapons in retail stores - why aren't those weapons being used for illegal means?
http://www.carryconcealed.net/

[LTb1ow]

Thats the whole problem, there is never any good statistics. And I am just quoting a book from 1997 and the FBI uniform crime reports. You can use one statistic to prove guns equate to more crime or turn around and use the same statistic to prove they don't. I was just trying to get the point across that more laws to restrict law abiding citizens will do nothing to lower crime rates.

[Mike]

your quoting stats from 12 years ago?

[jims69camaro]

Originally Posted by Shownomercy

Thats the whole problem, there is never any good statistics. And I am just quoting a book from 1997 and the FBI uniform crime reports. You can use one statistic to prove guns equate to more crime or turn around and use the same statistic to prove they don't. I was just trying to get the point across that more laws to restrict law abiding citizens will do nothing to lower crime rates.

understand one thing, if nothing else: law-abiding citizens with weapons will abide by whatever laws are in place or, in the future, put in place. only the criminals have illegal weapons and those illegal weapons are the ones used in crime. no law-abiding citizen is going to one day decide to load his weapon for criminal activity.

[BigAls87Z28]

Agreed with Jim.
Just how I feel about drugs. Just because you legalize drugs doesnt mean everyone is gunna be nose deep in white dust, or colapsed every vien in thier body.

IMO, the increased ability to CCW COULD allow people to retaliate in a situation. I can also see how some cops might be a little uneasy about this as they will have to be on thier toes from people carrying guns being good or bad.
I see the good and the bad.

[jims69camaro]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

IMO, the increased ability to CCW COULD allow people to retaliate in a situation. I can also see how some cops might be a little uneasy about this as they will have to be on thier toes from people carrying guns being good or bad.
I see the good and the bad.

the police already are on their toes, since any person they pull over in a traffic stop could be carrying a weapon - legally or otherwise. the law abiding citizen will alert the officer to the weapon he carries.

the criminal will wait until he is in handcuffs sitting in the backseat of the patrol car and the officer searches his car because of probable cause or exigent circumstances... lol

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

your quoting stats from 12 years ago?

Yup, did a report on it, and that was a main source. So yes, 12 year old stats.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Agreed with Jim.
Just how I feel about drugs. Just because you legalize drugs doesnt mean everyone is gunna be nose deep in white dust, or colapsed every vien in thier body.

IMO, the increased ability to CCW COULD allow people to retaliate in a situation. I can also see how some cops might be a little uneasy about this as they will have to be on thier toes from people carrying guns being good or bad.
I see the good and the bad.

Al makes some good points. However, the people applying for CCW would have a background check performed on them, they would have to take a NRA certified pistol saftey course (and pass it), and probably pay a decent amount of money for the processing ad the permit itself on top of it all. not to mention having their fingerprints taken and put into an FBI data base. plus here in NJ, legally bought handguns are registered so it will always get traced back to whomever bought it.

honest law abiding citizens should have the right to protect themselves. Criminals dont care if the law says they cant carry, they're going to do it anyway.

I own a gun and I can tell you that the last thing I ever want to do is use it for its intended purpose. its a last ditch effort in the truest sense of the term.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Ian

Al makes some good points. However, the people applying for CCW would have a background check performed on them, they would have to take a NRA certified pistol saftey course (and pass it), and probably pay a decent amount of money for the processing ad the permit itself on top of it all. not to mention having their fingerprints taken and put into an FBI data base. plus here in NJ, legally bought handguns are registered so it will always get traced back to whomever bought it.

honest law abiding citizens should have the right to protect themselves. Criminals dont care if the law says they cant carry, they're going to do it anyway.

I own a gun and I can tell you that the last thing I ever want to do is use it for its intended purpose. its a last ditch effort in the truest sense of the term.

Well, that explains it perfectly.
How do police know who is the law abiding citizen, and who is a criminal?
How many police shootings were a result of a cop thinking someone had a gun, while the cop had an itchy trigger finger.
Multiply that by X amount MORE people that never had the ability to cary, and now you have more cops on edge cause who knows. At least before, if you were carying...you were probably a bad guy.
IMO, if you fear for your life, you would probably have a gun near by anyway, dispite the law.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Well, that explains it perfectly.
How do police know who is the law abiding citizen, and who is a criminal?

usually the criminals are the ones doing something wrong. certain times it is impossible to tell, like traffic stops. Jim already pointed out that cops treat those situations as if the person they pulled over could possibly have a weapon. a law abiding person with a carry permit would inform the officer that they have a carry permit and are carrying at the moment.

How many police shootings were a result of a cop thinking someone had a gun, while the cop had an itchy trigger finger.

those situations generally arise when someone is reaching for something out of the officers sight. its always important to make the officer comfortable in any situation and to be honest with them. again, someone who is legally carrying wouldn't reach for their gun and put the officer in that position. they would inform the officer that they are carrying and in the worst case scenario, have the officer remove the weapon from their person consensually.

Multiply that by X amount MORE people that never had the ability to cary, and now you have more cops on edge cause who knows.

this is something that kinda grates my nerves. people seem to think that if an honest person is carrying a gun that its going to come out of its holster all the time. ITS NOT! its not a cell phone, its not a wallet. it is your last chance to save your life if you are in a bad situation and you've run out of options.

At least before, if you were carying...you were probably a bad guy.

or security personnel, or an off duty police officer, or a corrections officer....

IMO, if you fear for your life, you would probably have a gun near by anyway, dispite the law.

Thats not true at all. within your home, sure I could see that. I dont know of anyone who carries that isn't allowed to legally. thats just plain stupid.

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