Who is the best tuner for V6?

[Mark42]

Spent the last hour or so searching and reading posts about tuning and tuners. Seems like all the posts are about tuning LS1. I have a 98 w3.8 that is my daily driver and will do some time towing my boat during the summer.

Changes I think I need/want:

Adjust speedo for 3.73 gears.
Firmer shift, changed shift points, quicker down shifts.
Improved economy on highway.
Any other adjustments to take advantage of B&M Trans cooler and engine oil cooler and 180 thermostat.

Would I be better off with a mail order tune, or drive it to a sponsors shop or other.

PS, got to get the gears and True-Trac installed before the snow flies or I won't be going anywhere with the open rear in the snow.

[LTb1ow]

I dunno if he does V6s, but Josh at JS does some good work.

[NJ Torque]

Check with Devin @ Whiplash performance...

[Blacdout96]

You could try PCMforless.com for a retune, usually thats what us V6 guys use. I have a 96 Camaro with a 97 motor, and I can't find anyone local that could personally tune it. I hate to do a mail order tune, but it's better then nothing. Your car is a 98, which is a ton easier to tune, so you might get lucky with someone local now that I think about it.

[Mark42]

Thanks for the replies.

Blacdout96, what sort of performance improvements can I expect from a V6 "off the shelf" tune?

I really don't expect great HP increase (if any), but I would hope for more spirited shifting and better MPG. I read where a good tune usually gives an increase in MPG on highway, and hopefully, that would offset the loss caused by changing to 3.73 gears.

One thing that always amazed me is why people spend big bucks hot rodding their motors, but don't spend a few bucks on trans and engine oil coolers. These two simple to install coolers will make the hot rod motor and trans last so much longer than if they are not added. My personal experience is for the $60 trans cooler and $80 engine oil cooler w/remote filter, the pay back is insurance against scored cams, cylinders, and spun main bearings under hard use. If added to a stock drive train, expect 200K of usable life before trans failure, oil consumption, etc.

JMHO.

Regards,

Mark

[LTb1ow]

Remote oil cooler = potential leaks, and potential clogs. IMO.

[Blacdout96]

You speedometer wil be correct, you can lift your rev limiter, and disengage your speed limiter ( 112mph) but really without goign to indepth wiht the company, don't expect much, I didnt. I asked for firmer shifts, it felt just like when I sent it out. I want it tuned at a shop so they can physically dial it in. You won't get any better gas mileage without first doing some head/intake work on our motors, the intake ports are god awful from the factory. when I was goign to buy Tim's heads off his drag car, he had astock cam in the car, and with an intake/heads ported and what not, got about 30mpg!! so for our cars it's not so much how you changethe computer, you got to change some parts as well.

[Savage_Messiah]

Jeff, 96 is a bastard year.

If you're gonna be getting serious with the car, may want to look into getting HP Tuners or at least finding somebody who has it and knows what they're doing with it, that's what most 3.8 guys do. After that would be pcmforless.

[Mark42]

Originally Posted by LTs1ow

Remote oil cooler = potential leaks, and potential clogs. IMO.

Please tell me about your personal experiences with leaks and clogs. I am interested in hearing about it.

Thanks!

[Mark42]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

You speedometer wil be correct, you can lift your rev limiter, and disengage your speed limiter ( 112mph) but really without goign to indepth wiht the company, don't expect much, I didnt. I asked for firmer shifts, it felt just like when I sent it out. I want it tuned at a shop so they can physically dial it in. You won't get any better gas mileage without first doing some head/intake work on our motors, the intake ports are god awful from the factory. when I was goign to buy Tim's heads off his drag car, he had astock cam in the car, and with an intake/heads ported and what not, got about 30mpg!! so for our cars it's not so much how you changethe computer, you got to change some parts as well.

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

Jeff, 96 is a bastard year.

If you're gonna be getting serious with the car, may want to look into getting HP Tuners or at least finding somebody who has it and knows what they're doing with it, that's what most 3.8 guys do. After that would be pcmforless.

I'm not really looking to get any major HP gains from a tune. The gear change will far outperform any intake, exhaust, and PCM mods. I just want the car to drive better, sooner downshifts, firmer shifts, cooling fans come one sooner, etc.

HP tuner is $400. I would rather pay someone who knows what they are doing to tune the V6. $400 will get a lot of tune!

PCMforless is still an option.

I shot off an email to Devin asking his opinion and suggestions on what I want to do.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

[Blacdout96]

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

Jeff, 96 is a bastard year.

If you're gonna be getting serious with the car, may want to look into getting HP Tuners or at least finding somebody who has it and knows what they're doing with it, that's what most 3.8 guys do. After that would be pcmforless.

I know I know, I'm a bastard, my car is a bastard, we go hand in hand. Like I said I switched out my comp for a 97 so it could get tuned, since his is a 98 I believe they have a tuning setup for his car he could buy

[Slow-V6]

HP Tuners is 400.00 But it is worth every penny. When I had my Built 98 V6 Firebird I had a Maft Translator Plus as my only tuning option. my car made I tried a mail order tune from PCM for less but it did not work. So I kept my stock PCM with the stock tune and adjusted A/F and Spark with the translator. I needed to raise my Redline to 7000 RPMS but there was no software out there to do it. With HP tuners once you figure it out it works great. Plus for 400.00 you get enough credits to go halfs with someone else who is looking to get HP tuners..

Check out these sites also..

www.firebirdv6.com
www.fullthrottlev6.com

Those were my old stomping grounds were I learned everything about the 3.8. I had a Forged internal, bored and stroked 3.8 with ported heads, intakes, big cam for back in 2002. I had 4.10 gears, and a nise shot of nitrous to top it off..

[Blacdout96]

problem is our tables only go up to 6500-6700, so once you go beyond that, your car's not calculating anything properly, so the powerband should flatline, and drop. The rotating internals I'm using tobuild my motor are used to withstand 7000-7500 RPM if an occasion was to happen, but my redline will be at 6700 when I'm done. 6500 is better then what my car does today. When I went to a TTP dyno day, my car got up to 4500RPM, and the powerband literally dropped, and was dumping so much fuel in there, so it needs to be personally tuned to run it right.

[Slow-V6]

And to pay somebody to change your shifts and speedo is just wrong. With HP tuners its a simple question. What gears do you have? What size tires do you have? Then hit enter and its calibrated.
Gears are great but your car still cant breathe. With my 98 Firebird I made 170rwhp and 200rwtq stock with a 3.73 rear. My car was a 5 speed. With Headers, full exhaust and a lid I made 190rwhp and 225rwtq. Thats about 800.00 in mods to gain 20hp.. There was only one choice in headers back then for the 3.8 so they were 400.00 alone. I was also running a flowmaster which is not the best perfomance muffler but the one that sounded the best on a V6.
Dont worry about loosing any mpg or anything with the gears. Installed 4.10s in my V6 and everyone said that it will suck for MPG and drivability but it was a blast to drive. I actually got better MPG with 4.10's then with the stock 3.23's. It made it easier for my car to get going which means I used less gas to get through 1st through 5th. I also gained some MPG with the exhaust system with no emissions. I lived in VA so there is no emissons down there. Overall I was getting 33-35mpg on the highway and 25-28 around town.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

problem is our tables only go up to 6500-6700, so once you go beyond that, your car's not calculating anything properly, so the powerband should flatline, and drop. The rotating internals I'm using tobuild my motor are used to withstand 7000-7500 RPM if an occasion was to happen, but my redline will be at 6700 when I'm done. 6500 is better then what my car does today. When I went to a TTP dyno day, my car got up to 4500RPM, and the powerband literally dropped, and was dumping so much fuel in there, so it needs to be personally tuned to run it right.

My car would have made over 400rwhp if it wasnt limited at 5600rpms. That was on a stock a/f tune and stock timing. I didnt mess with the tune on Nitrous. I adjusted it on motor but was to scared to on the bottle.

[Blacdout96]

Yeah our computers were so ******, the powerband stock didnt come in till like 3000 and died at 4500. All the cams i look at are the same thing, powerband is like 25-3000 and although they say good till 6700 or 7000, it wouldn't be worth hitting since our tabels play pocket pool after 6500.

[Slow-V6]

My car made 230rwhp and 230rwtq on motor with a 12.8 A/F mixture leaned out like 10percent and advanced 4 degrees WOT..The Graph was still climbing at 5600 RPMs.. So with my Heads and cam and a built bottom end I gained 60 hp from stock.. That was also with a small nitrous cam and stage one ported heads and intake. I cant imagine what cams they have now and if they would of had the stage 3 ported heads like they do now..

On the bottle I kept the stock Tune which the A/F was 10.5.

There are 3.8 Firebirds making 260 rwhp and running 12's all motor..

[Blacdout96]

Jus to give you an example, my car, with a CAI, 3.23 gears, aluminum driveshaft, adn a couple other goodies, only laid down a whopping 159hp at the wheels, with torque at 195 ft. lbs. are your 230 at the wheel? if so, realize how much of an increase you had.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Jus to give you an example, my car, with a CAI, 3.23 gears, aluminum driveshaft, adn a couple other goodies, only laid down a whopping 159hp at the wheels, with torque at 195 ft. lbs. are your 230 at the wheel? if so, realize how much of an increase you had.

Yes sir 230rwhp and 230 rwtq..

I started out at 170rwhp and 200rwtq then with a lid, headers full 3inch exhaust ,Aluminum D/S, and msd coil packs I made 190rwhp and 210rwtq. Then with the built motor and heads and cam on a slight tune I made 230rwhp and 230rwtq. That still is nothing. on Firebirdv6 there are all motor V6's making 260rwhp and I think there are a couple that are close to 300rwhp all motor.

[Blacdout96]

Yeah, 300 really really is pushing it, but I see alot around 260-270. The one guy from Abbott Racing has done 13.3 with 271hp, and I forget how much torque, which is plenty of power to give LT and some LS guys a raised eyebrow.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Yeah, 300 really really is pushing it, but I see alot around 260-270. The one guy from Abbott Racing has done 13.3 with 271hp, and I forget how much torque, which is plenty of power to give LT and some LS guys a raised eyebrow.

Yep.. I built my car for Nitrous so I had a nitrous cam. I started building my motor in 2003 and installed it in 2004. There were not that many options out there for V6 guys. Most people ask me why not just drop a LS1 in it? I tell them the same thing that I still say today. It is more fun beating down LS1's and LS6's with a V6 then a V8. I have many fond memories of my little V6 beating down on some C6's and 01 Z06's. My car was insane on the street but always broke at the track. It also was a dyno queen. I won many V6 dyno class events.