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05-20-2007, 09:25 AM
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#1
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12 Second Club
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oradell
Posts: 8,370
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3rd gen subframe connectors
bolt in or weld on?
weld on are ususally cheaper but then ill havbe to pay someone to weld them in. how hard are the bolt in ones to do yourself?
was lookin at sumthin like these? you think ill have to do alot of drilling and wat not?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-92...QQcmdZViewItem
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88 Camaro
95 Impala SS
97 Trans Am WS6
98 Blazer ZR2
00 Corvette
04 CTS-V
04 Grand Cherokee
07 Sublime Charger Daytona
09 Grand Cherokee Limited HEMI
12 Tahoe LT
17 Malibu LT
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05-20-2007, 11:12 AM
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#2
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11 second club / Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: West Berlin, NJ
Posts: 7,148
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weld on.... dont bolt them in
I would try and go with something that mounts at 3 points..... I got UMI's from 86formula and they are fantastic
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2001 Trans Am WS6 •SLP Loudmouth II •UMI Suspension •12.857 @ 109.57
1996 Trans Am WS6 •Pacesetter Longtubes •Strange 12 Bolt •Spohn Suspension •11.152 @ 123.85
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05-20-2007, 05:54 PM
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#3
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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Depending on the design, you can install bolt ons and then have them tack welded in a few places. I would go for only weld-ons, but it is a viable option.
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05-20-2007, 05:55 PM
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#4
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Power Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 2,415
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Get a set from UMI and you will not be disapointed
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05-20-2007, 08:19 PM
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#5
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: West Long Branch
Posts: 13,598
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Get the bolt ins, but have them welded. The design of them wraps around the subframes, giving you added strength over weld in ones. The extra money is worth it.
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2/20/2013: They Day the ****s Stopped
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05-20-2007, 08:27 PM
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#6
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11 second club / Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: West Berlin, NJ
Posts: 7,148
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I think that alston's have the option to be bolted in
__________________
2001 Trans Am WS6 •SLP Loudmouth II •UMI Suspension •12.857 @ 109.57
1996 Trans Am WS6 •Pacesetter Longtubes •Strange 12 Bolt •Spohn Suspension •11.152 @ 123.85
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05-20-2007, 08:39 PM
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#7
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: West Long Branch
Posts: 13,598
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I got a set of Alstons for the 72, and they are bolt in. I will bolt them to see how they feel with the whole car, but I will most deffinatly have them welded....I just need to find someone who will do it.
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2/20/2013: They Day the ****s Stopped
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05-21-2007, 07:01 AM
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#8
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Power Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 2,415
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IMO go with the welded ones. The problem with bolt on ones is the holes will eventualy widen up from the flex of the car and its gives another place for rust to form on the inside of the frame rails from drill holes in them. UMI makes a really nice set that bolts and weld in the back to the control arm mounts and comes up fromt with 4 weld points up front.
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05-21-2007, 07:07 AM
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#9
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Midland Park, NJ
Posts: 1,389
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I had south side weld in on my 89 IROC but we did it on my fathers allignment rack as ideally you want the preload set on all 4 wheels on a flat surface. Most lifts have 4 jack screws on each arm which causes the body to flex unevely when its in the air. To weld frame rail connectors in a car when the body is tweeked cant be too good for it. I had to pull the conslole, seats & carpet out so I wouldnt burn the carpet. Put the car on a regular lift. I then removed the LCA bolts. Re installed the LCA bolts through the eyelet on the frame rails. My father tached the fronts of each rail up. Let the car down, drove it on the allignment rack. Ground the tach welds off. Ground paint off the underframe and stitch welded the frame rails along the floor. Painted the welds and took the car off the rack and put everything back together. I did this at around 40k and sold the car with about 160k and mt friends always complemented on the fact my T-tops never leaked or rattled even with the car being 12 years old and having that many miles. However, if your 3rd gen ia already 15-16 years old, why would you install them now?
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05-21-2007, 09:00 AM
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#10
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hillsborough, NJ
Posts: 2,630
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Alamantia is right...you want the car loaded so there is no flex in it when you're welding them up. Weld ins are the way to go...even if you buy bolt ins weld them after install.
I don't know why anyone hasn't mentioned them yet.....Spohn makes a killer set of SFC's that triangulate into the front subframe. They make a tubular design that fits very very well.
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--==RPM Resto & Custom==--
1989 IROC-Z Media Coverage:
Chevy High Performance - Readers Rides 4/03
GM High Tech Performance - Tech Article 3/06
Chevy Rumble - Tech & Feature Articles November 2006
Auto Restorer Magazine - Feature Article 5/11
SkinAndSteel.com
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05-22-2007, 09:19 PM
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#11
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NJFBOA Supporting Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HULMEVILLE, PA
Posts: 2,023
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so does the UMI design
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JSSPEEDANDCUSTOM.COM
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06-04-2007, 07:28 PM
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#12
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haledon, NJ
Posts: 5,162
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I have the UMI weld in ones in the garage, hopfully they'll be goin in in another week or so
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1989 IROC-Z 355 LT1 T56 Swapped
2016 Chevy Colorado LT 3.6 v6
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L RIP 12/29/2016
1998 Honda CBR 600F3
2003 Yamaha FX140
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06-19-2007, 09:10 PM
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#13
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10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Roxbury, NJ
Posts: 2,129
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im running the bolt in ALSTON RACING onese, not Chris Alston's chassisworks, but the ones sold by TDS - top down solutions fbody parts
i like the a LOT, they strengthende up the car a lot. took a full day to install, just because i wanted to do everything right, but because i didnt remeove the damn exhaust - DO THIS!
the bolt in ones i run wrap around the sides of the "frame" and have holes for 2 bolts to go thru from one side to the other,; well i put an extra hole, and therefore an extra bolt in each one, so instead of 8 bolts total, i have 12.
i lik em, but im not running to mcuh hp. or tq. for it to 'really" mater much
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1987 IROC-Z - modified
Last edited by IROCZman15; 06-19-2007 at 09:17 PM.
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06-21-2007, 09:56 PM
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#14
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NJFBOA Co-Founder
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: All up in your kool aid!
Posts: 12,235
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i would go with UMI. they have great fit and finish and the prices are very fair. i can't see trusting some no name off ebay connectors to help protect and stiffen my chassis.
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09-03-2007, 12:19 PM
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#15
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesex, NJ
Posts: 462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER
i would go with UMI. they have great fit and finish and the prices are very fair. i can't see trusting some no name off ebay connectors to help protect and stiffen my chassis.
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I agree
Get the UMI ones, they have the boxed style, they make for a great jacking point and ALWAYS weld them in...never just bolt onits just not worth it
I plan to get a set for my thirdgen once i get some disposable income.
__________________
Harry (Proud member of NJFB) www.myspace.com/newjerseyfbodies
1986 FireBird LG4
-FlowMaster 3inch American Thunder -Edelbrock Elite Series Intake -WS6 Style Functional Ram Air Hood -B&M Shift Kit -American Racing Outlaw II Alloys -Fuzion HRI Tires
8/26/07 Just reached 160K and running great!
1/15/09 Just reached 180K and still running great!
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09-06-2007, 03:03 PM
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#16
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Avatar Abuser
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 08721-1716
Posts: 5,056
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i am also looking forward to getting some SFCs for the '87. i am considering Spohn, as you can buy the pieces to the whole suspension system, as money allows, and he makes the components so that they work together.
weld the bolt-ins, i've also heard this is the way to go as you get extra strength.
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JSFBOA
Save a life.
N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L
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09-06-2007, 04:47 PM
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#17
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesex, NJ
Posts: 462
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I like UMI and spohn (especially spohn because of tere extensive selection of 3rd gen parts).
The only thing that bothers me is that they both swear that there SFCs are better than the other...it gets confusing.
Really the only difference i saw was that spohn has tubular as UMI has boxed.
__________________
Harry (Proud member of NJFB) www.myspace.com/newjerseyfbodies
1986 FireBird LG4
-FlowMaster 3inch American Thunder -Edelbrock Elite Series Intake -WS6 Style Functional Ram Air Hood -B&M Shift Kit -American Racing Outlaw II Alloys -Fuzion HRI Tires
8/26/07 Just reached 160K and running great!
1/15/09 Just reached 180K and still running great!
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09-07-2007, 03:04 PM
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#18
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NJFBOA Co-Founder
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: All up in your kool aid!
Posts: 12,235
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when you really boil it down, there is no ne better than the other. face it, they are all selling what amounts to a steel stick that ties the front and rear of the car together. it is not some complicated, cutting edge item that requires constant technological input.
jsut get one from a company that has a reputation for good fit and finish(umi and spohn) and at a reasonable price.
defnately go weld in, bolt ins eventually work themselves loose and do more harm t your chassis than good.
i think js performance is a UMI distributer, hit him up to see if he can get you a good price on the subs and maybe install.
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09-07-2007, 07:54 PM
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#19
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10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Roxbury, NJ
Posts: 2,129
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welds break too tho
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1987 IROC-Z - modified
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09-07-2007, 08:31 PM
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#20
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesex, NJ
Posts: 462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87IROCmadman
welds break too tho
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true but if done right they wont or not for a loooooong time....either way its better than bolts
__________________
Harry (Proud member of NJFB) www.myspace.com/newjerseyfbodies
1986 FireBird LG4
-FlowMaster 3inch American Thunder -Edelbrock Elite Series Intake -WS6 Style Functional Ram Air Hood -B&M Shift Kit -American Racing Outlaw II Alloys -Fuzion HRI Tires
8/26/07 Just reached 160K and running great!
1/15/09 Just reached 180K and still running great!
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09-07-2007, 08:44 PM
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#21
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NJFBOA Co-Founder
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: All up in your kool aid!
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87IROCmadman
welds break too tho
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welds don't fail unless they are horrible, the first thing to fail will be the metal around the weld. if you push your car hard enough or make a hard enough impact to do that, your subframe connectors are the last thing that will be on your mind. lol
the problem with bolts is that there is no way to completely stop a bolt from moving. you can tighten it twice a day and the result will be the same. the bolt will slowly and slightly move itself around and either come loose, stretch out of place, wear the surrounding metal and come loose, or oval out the holes it is in.
welds have none of these problems. once welded, things stay in place until the surrounding material fails.
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10-28-2007, 05:05 AM
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#22
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13 Second Club
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Clifton,NJ/ Providence,RI
Posts: 520
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ive got the spohn weld in's and im very happy with them..installed them myself without a lift.put the front up on ramps then jacked the back up and put the car back down with blocks of wood under tire so the suspension is loaded...went in within a couple hours, didnt have to pull the interior apart..just be careful welding..used a wire wheel on a grinder to clean up before i welded and everything fit with no cutting..just remember to drop the front part of the control arms after its tacked so you dont roast the bushings..i was worried my smaller mig welder wouldnt be powerful enough but it did great...
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10-28-2007, 09:02 AM
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#23
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Sliderule / Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Catawissa PA
Posts: 2,294
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I've heard the S+W SFC have the best ground clearance. As far as the bolt-ins not being good> I've run the SLP bolt-in on my 93s for many years and I've never found a bolt loose or any problems at all. The SLP have 3 mounting points as well which I think help stiffen the frame and the floor pan.
__________________
93Z M6 Black: The 385 Lives! Supercharged, 3-core front mount intercooler, GTP heads, 3:73's, Street twin clutch, Jethot Longtubes, Mufflex 4" catback/spintech, S+W cage, Spohn Suspenion, Yada Yada Yada
1) Build it
2) Race it
3) Break it
4) Repeat!!!
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10-28-2007, 09:12 AM
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#24
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arm pit of the world... NJ
Posts: 2,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampered-Z
I've heard the S+W SFC have the best ground clearance. As far as the bolt-ins not being good> I've run the SLP bolt-in on my 93s for many years and I've never found a bolt loose or any problems at all. The SLP have 3 mounting points as well which I think help stiffen the frame and the floor pan.
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John, how are the SLP SFC for ground clearance? I'm in the market for SFC and have not made a decision yet.
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John
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10-29-2007, 02:01 PM
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#25
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Sliderule / Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Catawissa PA
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Featherburner
John, how are the SLP SFC for ground clearance? I'm in the market for SFC and have not made a decision yet.
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Not too bad. I've never scraped them, unlike my Spohn torque arm! Only issue I say is that they are a PITA when using a 2-post life, the rear mounts are tuff to work around. They are basically a bolt in version of the Kenny Bell Double Diamons, but his weld in ( I think ) and have an extra brace for the shock mounts or something. Using the SLP SFC and a G-load brace or DS loop that uses real steel to replace that stamped steel brace from the factory really makes a big difference in the stiffness of the car. I also have LG 3-point strut tower brace which ties the car together nicely.
Sorry for the
__________________
93Z M6 Black: The 385 Lives! Supercharged, 3-core front mount intercooler, GTP heads, 3:73's, Street twin clutch, Jethot Longtubes, Mufflex 4" catback/spintech, S+W cage, Spohn Suspenion, Yada Yada Yada
1) Build it
2) Race it
3) Break it
4) Repeat!!!
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