Curious about 305 ci 3rd gen potential

[98tadriver]

ok, So i'm going to be buying my 3rd gen back from my friend sometime this month for cheap. My plans for it are to be a fun, track dedicated car, where performance parts arent as costly as LS1 parts. It will be a slow project that will be built up in time, with goals to hit low 12s, high 11s N/A, while staying carb'd and keeping it simple. It will have more weight reduction done to it. I wanna run it as is with the stock TBI motor first to get a baseline number at the track. it doesnt really have many mods other than a K&N filter, catback, !cat, a few free mods and a 9bolt discbrake rear with 3.45 gears. it was a pretty strong motor for a 305. I will leave it up to the ninja to go 11s or possibly faster this year

Im not putting any other engine in it until next year. The idea here is to see what I can run with the 305. Im not trying to break any records or prove people wrong. I am just curious as to what it will run like, sound like and go down the track. Im not doing any LTX or LSX swaps. it will be a carb'd smallblock.

MMKK, so here's a list of things i put together. some i know a good deal about, others i would need some helpful insight and what not Im trying to keep the budget under or around $2,000-2500 this year, not including the price of the car in there.

Things on my list kind of in order-
some are used, some things would be new

Phase 1-

700R4 $150
3800 stall converter $350
ET streets or similar prefrbly cheaper than $330/pair not drag radials either
Longtubes 160.00 (new) and some kind of TD setup with a X pipe
Xpipe- $85-$95
bullet mufflers or something to quiet it down a lil $25-$60 each

and then run it, maybe before the headers and TD's, then run it after the headers and TD's

Phase 2

Some kind of a good Intake manifold I can find them on ebay, but brand new they run for $150+ http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...115+4294903503

a 4bbl carb 650 cfm ? My friend's brother rebuilds quadrajets no problemo. either that or find something on ebay cheap

Heads- $700/pair http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PROCO...spagenameZWDVW

cam & lifters- $190.00 http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60104LK&autoview=sku

hardened chro-mo pushrods were $130-140
and if i needed rockerarms- http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku

then, gaskets cost for the heads/intake, miscllaneous crap $$??

some things i could get cheaper from ebay/forums

Now, I understand that this is only a 305, but i just want to see what i could get out of it until the time came for a new powerplant next year or the year after. and yes the bottom end would remain how it is no seriously, it would. Im kinda new at putting a top end together as far as what to get, so i am open to polite suggestions as to what i would need. and i must stay within the $2500.00 mark. the H/C/I probably wouldnt be done this year. maybe the intake and carb at the most. and would a 3800 stall be a waste before the H/C/I install? i dont know much about stall converters and their full potential

[chrisfrom nj]

good luck with the build ron

[98tadriver]

thanks dude. the bolt ons should come quickly. i dont think the motor work would happen until summer/fall most likely.

[BonzoHansen]

If it is a track car, why not ditch the 700r4 and go for a th350, or 400?

[98tadriver]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

If it is a track car, why not ditch the 700r4 and go for a th350, or 400?

I Thought about that. The motor isnt going to be real sick or anything, the trans will only cost me 150 bucks, and I'd still be driving it to the track, which is a solid 50 mile drive one way. I can definately see a th350 or 400 in the future, after the 305 is replaced with something else

[wretched73]

Why not just get rid of your 305 and put in a 350 now? Its not that expensive and everything will mount up the same

[98tadriver]

Originally Posted by wretched73

Why not just get rid of your 305 and put in a 350 now? Its not that expensive and everything will mount up the same

No thanks. the whole idea is to see what i can do with the 305. I will be saving up for another engine to go in around the middle of next year. Im going to document the gains baseline, and with different parts as i go. Im not looking to defy all odds or prove a point or anything. I just want to have fun with the 305 before it comes out next year.

next, im going to hear "why dont you just do a LS1 swap??" No.. The whole idea is to see what i can get out of the stock motor, keep in simple, and stay away from LSX engines. If i wanted to do LS1 stuff, i would dump more money into the 98. (which by the way isnt going to happen)

[BonzoHansen]

Oh, you already have a working 700. Got it. I figured a TH350 is cheaper to rebuild, and cheaper converters. But you'd need a d/s and have to deal with the arm mount. So it probably equals out.

If you didn't have the 700....

[98tadriver]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Oh, you already have a working 700. Got it. I figured a TH350 is cheaper to rebuild, and cheaper converters. But you'd need a d/s and have to deal with the arm mount. So it probably equals out.

If you didn't have the 700....

yep, then itd be a different story fo sho!

[98tadriver]

found 2 different top end builds one was good for 325 fw hp and the other 372 fw hp

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/carcraft325hp305.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...cks/index.html

"Talk about building or hopping up a 305 and guys will generally shun you, or even boldly accuse you of being a fool. You'll hear, "Why mess with that junk motor? You're wasting your time." Wouldn't it be nice to lay waste on their stuff instead, with a few discrete bolt-ons? How about a bolt-on package that will add 150 crank hp, and still pull a good 13 in-hg of manifold vacuum at 850 rpm? And what if all the stuff comes in cheaper than what it would take to build the average high performance 350 short-block, and all the parts will transfer over to a larger engine and work great if you ever decide go bigger?"

[Ian]

I have a 350 block, crank and rods for sale. only has 7 good pistons though, I dropped one on the floor and broke the skirt.

I've got a set of vortec heads for sale too.

I'll see if I can find the classified add and bump it for you if you're interested.

[98tadriver]

hmmmm vortech heads.. what are the specs on them? i think in one of the builds, they go with vortech heads, ill take a look and see if they did

[NJSPEEDER]

phase1:
ditch the whole x-pipe and dual exhaust idea, waste of time. too much tubing in both volume and weight, and no performance value with a small motor. shorty headers w/ good y-pipe and a single 3 short system, dumped before the axle, will do the job fine with a 305 or mild 350. i actually may have a good set up sitting in my garage, hit me up on AIM to discuss.

the stall seems good, get yourself a rachet shifter, shift light, and a shift kit. also, wire in a manual lock up. if you are running for time you can flip the swtich and have the TC lock as soon as you hit second. huge improvement to driveline efficiency down track and you can drop some good ET. playing with the switch to find him the sweet spot for best times and traps.

phase2:
no need to spend 700+ on heads for a 305 that you are only putting a mild cam in anyway. look for some used L98 vette heads(58cc) or late 70's 305 heads(58cc) and a performer intake and you will be in good shape. all can be found at swap meets, parts boards, and salvage yards for cheap.

650 carb is a good call. i know nothing about q-jets, the little bit of playing with them i have done convinced me that a holley or demon is a much easier way to go in terms of tuning.

don't forget to add in a few bucks to prepare a good dizzy. mechanical advance is easy to dial in, just have to make sure you are starting with a piece in good shape and go from there.

cam, if it is a roller block you can go the cheap route and just get a stock LT1 or LT4, if it is flat tappet you can save yourself some time and aggrivation of collecting parts by jsut getting a complete cam kit like comp sells.

[98tadriver]

pm'd ya timmmmay

thanks for the tips. I know that my 3rd gen has a roller cam. and by looking at the prices on them, those things are so darn expensive to replace too! i could just go with a hydraulic flat tappet Cam and lifter kit right? as long as i get the lifters with the cam. plus i found something on exhaust, they gained a good bit of FW HP with the longtubes and TD's with flowmasters compared to the log-style paperweight exhaust manifolds. Today, I actually found a Edelbrock performer intake manifold in my garage too.

[426 Wedge]

I would consider that upgrade! Maybe somtime soon.

[deadtrend1]

Originally Posted by 98tadriver

....i could just go with a hydraulic flat tappet Cam and lifter kit right? as long as i get the lifters with the cam. ....

Eh, yea you could. Need new pushrods too.

Originally Posted by 98tadriver

... Today, I actually found a Edelbrock performer intake manifold in my garage too.

Make sure its the right year, bolts patterns changed slighty in '87

[bubba428]

theres about a .3in difference betwine flat tappet and rollers, pushrods length tool is a good idea. OR if you wanna get fancy, cut a pushrod in half and thread in a piece of threaded rod.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by 98tadriver

pm'd ya timmmmay

thanks for the tips. I know that my 3rd gen has a roller cam. and by looking at the prices on them, those things are so darn expensive to replace too! i could just go with a hydraulic flat tappet Cam and lifter kit right? as long as i get the lifters with the cam.

And you make sure to put the proper additive into your oil at every change. Zinc phosphate has been removed or reduced from a lot of modern oils and that's bad news for a flat tappet cam. Crane Cams break in lube should take care of it.