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11-27-2005, 10:53 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Shade, NJ
Posts: 681
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THE biggest online debate ever?
Ok, so this is going around the 'net. HUGE threads of people arguing back and forth...
Quote:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in opposite direction).
The question is:
Will the plane take off or not? Will it be able to run up and take off?
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The plane WILL take off. The wheels do not affect the thrust of the airplane, they just support it. People cant seem to grasp the concept that they are free rotating wheels and this is not a wind tunnel we are talking about.
__________________
'98 Trans Am - LQ4/M6
'88 GTA - 355HSR/auto
'92 Trans Am 'vert - Flower Pot
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11-27-2005, 10:55 PM
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#2
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 2,363
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im probally going to sound like a stupid POS but is the plane going to be moving??
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11-27-2005, 10:58 PM
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#3
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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I would think the opposite. Yes there is thrust being generated, but there is no air moving over and under the wings. Its like saying the plane is bolted directly to the ground and it tried to take off.
Now see what you've done! we're gonna start debating about it here!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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11-27-2005, 11:00 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 2,363
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haha thats what i was thinking the plane needs to be moving if it has thrust but its not moving then its like it has the brakes on
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11-27-2005, 11:02 PM
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#5
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haledon, NJ
Posts: 5,162
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I say no for the reasons Ian said. The airplane isn't actually moving through the air.
~Ted
__________________
1989 IROC-Z 355 LT1 T56 Swapped
2016 Chevy Colorado LT 3.6 v6
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L RIP 12/29/2016
1998 Honda CBR 600F3
2003 Yamaha FX140
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11-27-2005, 11:02 PM
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#6
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Mr Fantastic
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: West Milford NJ
Posts: 7,917
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the plane will move, the wheels will be going a million miles an hour though. keep in mind, the plane isnt driven by the wheels, it just rolls on them...the thrust will still push the plane
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Matt
B18B1 FTW
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11-27-2005, 11:03 PM
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#7
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 2,363
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but the "runway" will be moving in the opposit direction so the plane isnt moving its sitting in the same spot creating thrust hense.. plane isnt moving
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11-27-2005, 11:05 PM
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#8
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haledon, NJ
Posts: 5,162
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idiot! It will move, just that the wheels will be moving in the opposite direction
~Ted
__________________
1989 IROC-Z 355 LT1 T56 Swapped
2016 Chevy Colorado LT 3.6 v6
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L RIP 12/29/2016
1998 Honda CBR 600F3
2003 Yamaha FX140
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11-27-2005, 11:06 PM
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#9
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP99GT
the plane will move, the wheels will be going a million miles an hour though. keep in mind, the plane isnt driven by the wheels, it just rolls on them...the thrust will still push the plane
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but the plane will not move through the air. It NEEDS air under the wings to take off. I can run 15 mph on a treadmill, but after an hour of doing so, I'm still on the treadmill, not 15 miles away. you see what I'm saying? the thrust is only half of what makes the plane take off, the other half is air flow across the wings creating a hig pressure area under the wing and a low pressure area above it....or vice versa, I dont really remember.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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Last edited by Ian; 11-27-2005 at 11:11 PM.
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11-27-2005, 11:06 PM
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#10
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Resident Camera Guy
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 10,971
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I think that the plane will not generate lift. The plane has to be going in a forward motion at a high rate of speed to generate it. But if the track is moving at the same speed the jet will not move anywhere. Yes it is just rolling on the wheels but it has to go somewhere but it wont!
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11-27-2005, 11:07 PM
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#11
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 2,363
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i think we found out why this is the biggest debate
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11-27-2005, 11:09 PM
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#12
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oh one ls1 SS
i think we found out why this is the biggest debate
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It's not even an issue. I'm right. 8)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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11-27-2005, 11:10 PM
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#13
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haledon, NJ
Posts: 5,162
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the actual jet has nothing to do with the wheels. The plane will move forward and accelerate moving through the air but the wheels will be moving in the opposite direction
~Ted
__________________
1989 IROC-Z 355 LT1 T56 Swapped
2016 Chevy Colorado LT 3.6 v6
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L RIP 12/29/2016
1998 Honda CBR 600F3
2003 Yamaha FX140
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11-27-2005, 11:10 PM
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#14
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 2,363
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correction... WE are right
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11-27-2005, 11:12 PM
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#15
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teds89IROC
the actual jet has nothing to do with the wheels. The plane will move forward and accelerate moving through the air but the wheels will be moving in the opposite direction
~Ted
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are you saying it will take off? because if you are, you're wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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11-27-2005, 11:13 PM
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#16
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oh one ls1 SS
correction... WE are right
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__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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11-27-2005, 11:14 PM
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#17
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haledon, NJ
Posts: 5,162
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yes, it will take off. the speed of the conveyer/wheels has nothing to do with the speed/thrust/acceleration of the plane. They are free rotating wheels, they will just be moving in the opposite direction that the plane is moving. YOU are wrong
~Ted
__________________
1989 IROC-Z 355 LT1 T56 Swapped
2016 Chevy Colorado LT 3.6 v6
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L RIP 12/29/2016
1998 Honda CBR 600F3
2003 Yamaha FX140
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11-27-2005, 11:17 PM
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#18
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 2,363
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how is it moving?? its ike Ian said its like its on a tredmill its not moving just the wheels and convayer are plane is stationary
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11-27-2005, 11:18 PM
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#19
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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The plane will not move even an inch forward from where it was resting before it tried to take off. because it started from a standstill, all the planes weight is supported by the wheels. therefore, when it goes to take off, all the weight will stay on the wheels. it is not moving through the air! If you took a crane and dropped a string with a weight from it to meet the very tip of the nose of the plane, it will not move the entire time because there is no airflow under the wings. Airflow is the key to lift off. Push all you want, but if there isnt any air flowing across the wings, the plane is staying on the ground.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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11-27-2005, 11:20 PM
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#20
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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so you're saying if I'm running 15 mph on a treadmill, creating thrust and all that good stuff, that I'll have 15 mph worth of wind in my face?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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11-27-2005, 11:21 PM
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#21
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edison
Posts: 2,363
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11-27-2005, 11:23 PM
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#22
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haledon, NJ
Posts: 5,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
so you're saying if I'm running 15 mph on a treadmill, creating thrust and all that good stuff, that I'll have 15 mph worth of wind in my face?
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If your feet are detached from your body and you can move without friction, yes.
~Ted
__________________
1989 IROC-Z 355 LT1 T56 Swapped
2016 Chevy Colorado LT 3.6 v6
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L RIP 12/29/2016
1998 Honda CBR 600F3
2003 Yamaha FX140
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11-27-2005, 11:23 PM
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#23
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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Okay, I got another one. Try running on a treadmill with a kite and try to make it fly. yeah, you're running, but there sure as hell isnt any airflow. same thing as what the plane is doing
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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11-27-2005, 11:24 PM
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#24
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haledon, NJ
Posts: 5,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oh one ls1 SS
how is it moving?? its ike Ian said its like its on a tredmill its not moving just the wheels and convayer are plane is stationary
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who said the plane is stationary?
~Ted
__________________
1989 IROC-Z 355 LT1 T56 Swapped
2016 Chevy Colorado LT 3.6 v6
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L RIP 12/29/2016
1998 Honda CBR 600F3
2003 Yamaha FX140
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11-27-2005, 11:26 PM
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#25
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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unless I'm missing the part where they said it was a harrier jet doing all this, it wont take off, you need two things to make a plane take off and one directly affects the other. you need thrust to generate airflow. if you are thrusting, but not moving anywhere, there is no air flow and there is no flight.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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