Brake job // first time - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Untamed · 05-05-2009, 09:18 PM

Ok as my comfort level grows with working on cars, I figured its time to tackle my first brake job. I need to replace pads and rotors - standard stuff. This is for my DD 2005 Camry.

The Haynes book makes it look relatively easy. What are the gotchas with replacing pads and rotors? I shouldn't have to disconnect the brake lines right? Just unbolt a bunch of stuff then bolt it all back up once the pads and rotors are replaced.

Is it really that simple?

Whiplash Performance · 05-05-2009, 09:46 PM

No need to disconnect the brake lines. Just inspect them make sure there's no cracks in them. Yeah doing rotors are really simple nothing to it.

HeadlessNorseman · 05-05-2009, 10:18 PM

make sure you leave the brake fluid reservoir cap open, with a rag folded on it. You have to take the calipers off, squeeze them closed with a c clamp or other clamp(this can sometimes make fluid shoot out the cap, thats what the rag's for), and make sure you use the brake quiet when reinstalling them. RTV silione works well too but its messy. Your basically just "gluing" the pads to their contact points on the caliper. And make sure you grease up the slide bolts, this will keep it nice and squeak free. Just take your time. And make sure you have an extra jack or jackstand, so you can take the other side apart for reference if need be

Whiplash Performance · 05-05-2009, 10:31 PM

Can't forget. Don't get the brake fluid on anything painted! It removes paint!

BonzoHansen · 05-05-2009, 11:22 PM

I do brakes a little bit different. And to be honest I've never seen any qualified tech use RTV on brake pads. But the pink anti-squeal we used to use looks kind of like it.

Since I usually flush fluid when I do pads/shoes, I crack the bleeders on the calipers and then push the pistons in. Plus I've read numerous tech bulletins on pushing fluid back up can damage ABS units and masters.

Totally agree on cleaning all the mating surfaces and greasing the slides. I have a container of brake grease (which I suppose is just synthetic bearing grease). Regular grease can damage rubber parts. Make sure you don't get anything on the pad or rotor surfaces. A few cans of brake clean (2+2 brand is good, don't get the cheap crap) are good to have handy.

The best anti-squeak stuff I've used is anti-seize. Honda supplies it with their pads. I also tend to prefer dealer pads & rotors unless the car is rather old. The quality is higher and the noise is lower. Aftermarket I try to stick with NAPA or Wagner stuff. Cheap rotors are especially problematic. I just got cheap ones for the back of my olds and the damn rotor was pitted because it was a poorly casted china part. You may find anti-squeak stuff with dealer pads, but I hear they have been cheaping out and not supplying it anymore.

Like I said I usually flush out the old brake fluid at the same time. I have a turkey baster in the garage I use to suck most of the old fluid out of the MC, then I fill it with clean new fluid and open the bleeders and let gravity do its thing. Let it go until the MC is very low, then close the bleeders, fill the MC and I'm done.

Make sure you pump the brakes before you throw it in gear & driver off!!

Oh yeah, make sure she is safe up on jack stands. Don't be afraid to shake the crap out of the car on the stands before you start working. Better it falls with you in front of it than under it.

Dave, does this have to be done soon?

HeadlessNorseman · 05-06-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I do brakes a little bit different. And to be honest I've never seen any qualified tech use RTV on brake pads. But the pink anti-squeal we used to use looks kind of like it.

Since I usually flush fluid when I do pads/shoes, I crack the bleeders on the calipers and then push the pistons in. Plus I've read numerous tech bulletins on pushing fluid back up can damage ABS units and masters.

Totally agree on cleaning all the mating surfaces and greasing the slides. I have a container of brake grease (which I suppose is just synthetic bearing grease). Regular grease can damage rubber parts. Make sure you don't get anything on the pad or rotor surfaces. A few cans of brake clean (2+2 brand is good, don't get the cheap crap) are good to have handy.

The best anti-squeak stuff I've used is anti-seize. Honda supplies it with their pads. I also tend to prefer dealer pads & rotors unless the car is rather old. The quality is higher and the noise is lower. Aftermarket I try to stick with NAPA or Wagner stuff. Cheap rotors are especially problematic. I just got cheap ones for the back of my olds and the damn rotor was pitted because it was a poorly casted china part. You may find anti-squeak stuff with dealer pads, but I hear they have been cheaping out and not supplying it anymore.

Like I said I usually flush out the old brake fluid at the same time. I have a turkey baster in the garage I use to suck most of the old fluid out of the MC, then I fill it with clean new fluid and open the bleeders and let gravity do its thing. Let it go until the MC is very low, then close the bleeders, fill the MC and I'm done.

Make sure you pump the brakes before you throw it in gear & driver off!!

Oh yeah, make sure she is safe up on jack stands. Don't be afraid to shake the crap out of the car on the stands before you start working. Better it falls with you in front of it than under it.

Dave, does this have to be done soon?

I never knew that can damage anything. Thats the way ive always done it. I do brakes for friends and family as a little side business for 10 or 20 bucks and ive always done it that way. And ive used silicone one or 2 times on my own car because i didnt have any of the brake quiet stuff. Doesnt seem to make a difference to me.

BonzoHansen · 05-06-2009, 08:22 PM

Yup. Here, a C&P from a post a while ago at NastyZ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedAddict02

damn, now you guys got me all screwed up.. So what is the correct procedure if you arent suppose to push the piston into the bore with a C-Clamp or such?? And why is it bad for fluid to be pushed back up in an ABS system??

Back when I was in the service business, I read a number of bulletins on this. I file this info under the better-be-safe-than-sorry file. Of course, my Dad had a saying. There is a right way, a wrong way, and my way.

Quote:

Can I damage my braking system when I install new pads if I don’t open the bleeders to push in the pistons?

Yes! Opening caliper bleeders and using line locks before pushing caliper piston into bore helps prevent needless replacement of master cylinders. Pushing caliper pistons back into the caliper bore without opening the bleeders could damage master cylinders or ABS components. Opening the bleeder will allow the piston to be pushed back without forcing all the fluid into the master cylinder. However, sending some contaminated fluid to the master cylinder is still possible with the bleeder open. Using a line lock will assure you that this doesn’t happen.

Brake fluid inside the caliper is full of dirt and sludge. Using mechanical force to push a piston back will force the fluid through the ABS and the vent port on the master cylinder, which is about 0.015” in diameter. Without the bleeders open, this dirt could plug the vent port, causing brake drag or lockup when the fluid heats up. Furthermore, many of today’s ABS units have one or more filters inside. Dirt and sludge will plug or restrict these filters, causing problems with ABS operation.

Quote:

Some Volvo site
11.When servicing disc brakes, open the bleeder screws and vent the brake fluid, if it is necessary to push the caliper pistons in. There is sediment that naturally collects in calipers over a period of time. This sediment, if allowed to flow back into the master cylinder along with the brake fluid, can possibly damage the ABS hydraulic unit. [Editor's Note: see above notes on clamping the rubber brake lines.]

Quote:

About.com Auto Repair
When forcing the piston back into the caliper, open the bleeder valve first. Corrosion and other deposits accumulate inside of the caliper. If the bleeder valve is not opened when the piston is forced back into the caliper, these deposits will be forced back through the brake lines and into the master-cylinder.

Quote:

Americas Pride Online – sellers of auto equipment
It is extremely important to open the bleeder screw when compressing caliper pistons or wheel cylinders during routine brake maintenance. When a caliper piston is pushed in, brake fluid gets forced backward, up into the system. Since the caliper is the lowest point in the system, dirt and corrosion naturally accumulate there. When this grime and dirt finds its way into the HCU portion of the ABS system, it can cause valves to stick. This can lead to: a vehicle pulling one way or another; accumulators sticking open, which leads to low pedal; compensator ports plugging, which leads to dragging brakes; and of course, it can make the ABS light come on due to all of the above.

If technicians get in the habit of opening the bleeder when they compress the caliper piston, as well as selling customers a brake fluid flush, these problems will more than likely be prevented.

Quote:

Got another from the Cardone website

BigAls87Z28 · 05-06-2009, 10:14 PM

Ive heard to keep them open, but Ive heard that if you leave them open, you run the chance of getting air into the sytem, and even in the ABS. Dirt and debris is one thing, but air in the ABS system is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH TO BLEED unless you have the propper tool to cycle the damn thing.

BonzoHansen · 05-06-2009, 10:22 PM

Thus I gravity bleed it, no air.

Although I should have added close the bleeder before releasing the clamp. But you'll really only draw air in if the piston moves back out. Plus if you air it back to the ABS then you drained the system, not an air bubble or 2 in the caliper. I'd not be concerned.

HeadlessNorseman · 05-06-2009, 10:50 PM

that could be why the new owner of my firebird had to replace the master cylinder....woops

Untamed · 05-07-2009, 08:59 AM

What has prompted my desire to do the work myself was taking the car to the dealer for an estimate. Of course, in addition to the raping I would get for the brake job, they managed to find all kinds of things I need to replace, or death ensues....

So I picked up the Haynes manual for my car, looked it over, and felt I could do this since I've done so much else on my Trans Am.

The brakes really should be done very soon. The dealer felt the rotors could be resurfaced, but since I can't resurface them myself, and its still cheaper to replace it all myself, I figured new rotors are a good way to go. BTW, the car has 74K miles and this is the first brake job.

I guess I need to go buy a pair of C clamps.

WildBillyT · 05-07-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Untamed

What has prompted my desire to do the work myself was taking the car to the dealer for an estimate. Of course, in addition to the raping I would get for the brake job, they managed to find all kinds of things I need to replace, or death ensues....

So I picked up the Haynes manual for my car, looked it over, and felt I could do this since I've done so much else on my Trans Am.

The brakes really should be done very soon. The dealer felt the rotors could be resurfaced, but since I can't resurface them myself, and its still cheaper to replace it all myself, I figured new rotors are a good way to go. BTW, the car has 74K miles and this is the first brake job.

I guess I need to go buy a pair of C clamps.

Dave-

You can take the rotors off and take them to an auto store to get resurfaced yourself. It's been a while since I did it but it was only a few bucks a rotor.

BonzoHansen · 05-07-2009, 12:17 PM

But make sure they are measured and they are within spec. New cars have cheap rotors anyomore.

Knipps · 05-07-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

New cars have cheap rotors anyomore.

What?

BonzoHansen · 05-07-2009, 12:59 PM

Anyomore! Poor quality!