Bonding carbon fiber to metal.. - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Kat · 08-02-2010, 07:20 PM

I have a good idea on how to do it, but what I've been reading about is that people are saying that you'll need to lay down a layer of fiberglass first, then lay the cf. Just because of dissimilar materials and corrosion.

Im thinking just hitting the metal with a 24 grit disc, lay some resin, hit that with 40 grit, and then lay the CF.

Big reason behind this is that I'll prolly be using CF for accents on the car and where the cf isn't will be paint. So Im trying to keep the overall thickness down to at least .015 or so.

Sound reasonable?

PolarBear · 08-06-2010, 09:38 PM

I dont think you have to worry about that, its almost an inert material..... especially since the fibers are burned to make the stuff. I will get a piece of steel wrapped to complete my CF goal on the 73

Blacdout96 · 08-07-2010, 10:29 AM

Dont need to use fiberglass, and infact, the acidics in the resin or epoxy will eat away at the steel anyway, that's why people try not to wrap chassis's withthe fiberglass, it eats at it and makes it weaker. there is adhesive out there that you use to bond it, and it's stronger then the carbon fiber itself!! you'll break the carbon fiber before you get the adhesive to let go. 3M makes it, and if you don't want to cheap out and half ass it, I suggest lookign it up, it's worth buying it.....just make sure you do it in a ventilated area, the smell is strong, and will make you dizzy.

if you wantt omake it for accent parts, go with 3X3 twill, looks good, and stays light. one layer will be fine, and DONT USE RESIN, use epoxy. resin cracks, turns yellow, and fades over time. the epoxy doesnt, it handles the flex and stretch, yet is strong enough not to lose strength.

Kat · 08-07-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarBear

I dont think you have to worry about that, its almost an inert material..... especially since the fibers are burned to make the stuff. I will get a piece of steel wrapped to complete my CF goal on the 73

Yeah they do react to each other.. I think it is called either electrolysis or galvanization. Bascially it is the exchange of atoms between the two materials. The steel acts as the sacrifical material..

Thanks BO96.. Im actually going to use the cf to make the hertiage stripes on the vert. Should be intresting to pull it off.

Blacdout96 · 08-07-2010, 03:42 PM

uh..... your not going to put it on the outside of the hood/the whole car to make the stripes are you?

Kat · 08-08-2010, 07:44 PM

No just where the stripes are going to be on the hood (its a glass ss hood foor a thirdgen) , tonneau cover and trunk lid. The rest of the car is going to be DP90, K38, DBU and Concepts clear.. Heh I like PPG.

Blacdout96 · 08-09-2010, 07:56 AM

you know, anything like that, your better off getting carbon fiber vinyl and applying that. fake or not, involving youreself with carbon fiber like that, in the end, it's too much work, and there's a good chace that the outcome will look like crap if you havent worked with it before, and not only that but you'll add more weight tryign to make the stripes with real CF then using vinyl, so in a sense, your goign backwards.

PolarBear · 08-09-2010, 08:42 AM

I would wrap the whole thing rather than try to only get the CF where you want it. Honestly I wouldnt consider vinyl because it doesnt look anything like true IMO.

Blacdout is right though, if you havent had any experience you can make it look really bad. If you really want to do it you should consider wrapping other small parts and see how it comes out before you try your final piece.

Also al the parts you are describing are all fiberglass anyway, right?

Kat · 08-09-2010, 02:04 PM

From what I've been reading you can't clear over vynil anyways. It tends to lift off the vynil.

There is a process that you can paint a cf look with using different paints/black kandy. With some of the reasearch that I've done, buy 2 yards of cf and gallon of epoxy is cheaper vs buying the different paints to pull off the look of cf. Go figure. lol

No I've never worked with cf in the layup process, but I do work with the stuff on a semi-regular basis at work. (I work at boeing) A few thing thats I've read and talking to the composite fab guys, it is similar to laying up fiberglass.

As for covering the whole pannel with it, doesn't need it. You can get the stuff in .007 thick. The DP90 that I'll be spraying will be thicker than that. lol.

Polar, no they are metal. I always thought that they were also, till I sanded them down a few years ago.

Blacdout96 · 08-09-2010, 03:52 PM

As a person who has worked with carbon/kevlar/glass fibre on a regular basis, it is not the same. To get a smooth finish you will need to vacuum mold a sheet and cut it. Normal layup of CF will leave air bubbles, strands will show, and to thick/thin areas will show with a haze. and you would have to cut the CF after it cured since cutting it before epoxy will leave the end strands stickign out everywhere, which means you'll have the grind and cut what you want.

IMO, use the Vinyl, you cant clear coat it, it will shrivel up and tear apart. If your trying to go for a shiny CF look, save yourself alot of time AND money, because sorry it will cost more to buy the carbon fiber and epoxy, and properly lay it up, it will not come out the way you want it to, and drop the plans, one way or another it will be more work then worth it. Just vinyl it and be done with it.

CF has become a look statement, but sorry, it has become tacky. CF is ment for strengthening, and lightweight in mind, looks should be of last concern.

Kat · 08-09-2010, 07:14 PM

Hrmm you do have a point with the last statment...

Maybe it might just be the time for some HOK black base, black pearl mid and then a coat of their black diamond metaljuls....

PolarBear · 08-09-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

As a person who has worked with carbon/kevlar/glass fibre on a regular basis, it is not the same. To get a smooth finish you will need to vacuum mold a sheet and cut it. Normal layup of CF will leave air bubbles, strands will show, and to thick/thin areas will show with a haze. and you would have to cut the CF after it cured since cutting it before epoxy will leave the end strands stickign out everywhere, which means you'll have the grind and cut what you want.

Opinions should be kept out of threads like this. If he wants something to look like carbon fiber more power to him. I completely understand, I have a lot of CF on my car now and only some of it will be painted. I planned on doing inverse stripes with my car too, but I probably wont be painting until next year
I dont like any of the imitation CF because it cant copy the way CF reflects the light.
I will agree with most of said statements though about laying it up. You CAN get it to look nice without vacuum bagging it but it takes practice. All of my stuff is made from real CF and is vacuum bagged BUT it still has air bubbles (tiny) and is hazy but there is a way to make the CF look nice after it is layed up, unfortunately one way is to put more resin on it after it is all said and done, then you sand and buff it. Looks great when it is done but it is much thicker than vacuum bagging it and is most of the reason for the CF in the first place.
But like mentioned, you arent going to be able to only lay out the CF where you want it. The edges are going to look like crap. You are going to have to wrap the whole piece to get it to look nice, then you can concentrate on getting the areas you want smooth and presentable and you can use any means necessary to get the rest of the part that will be covered to look nice.

Blacdout96 · 08-10-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kat

Hrmm you do have a point with the last statment...

Maybe it might just be the time for some HOK black base, black pearl mid and then a coat of their black diamond metaljuls....

Sound like a good combo right there :thumbsup:

Kat · 08-10-2010, 08:47 PM

Hrmm just for referance..

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=547182

Blacdout96 · 08-10-2010, 09:37 PM

problem is, as smooth as that is, you see the ripples from when they folded the carbon fiber, it's as finiky in sunlight as a wavy paint job. It's best to buy it by the roll so the flow is continuous, and the strands are bent. it would be alot easier to get a hood already made out of carbon fiber and paint it, or even buy a fiberglass hood and apply the carbon cloth then. I see where your going with it.

PolarBear · 08-11-2010, 06:57 AM

The deck and spoiler are also CF on top. That is what I wanted to do with mine but I would have 2 stripes instead of one big one.

Those Chinese guys do a pretty good job putting those hoods together

V · 08-11-2010, 07:00 AM

however, with that 1st gen, the hood and decklid are both completely carbon fiber.
and id bet the front panel and wiper panel are custom made carbon fiber too. They were just painted over on the edges and cleared, then polished/buffed as with regular paint

edit: yup...

PolarBear · 08-11-2010, 08:01 AM

None of those panels are custom, buy them and bolt on. Also they are only CF on the outside, the rest is all fiberglass despite what the product descriptions say. They are really well made though, all from anvilauto.com

I have seen that car in person, well done IMO.

Frosty · 08-17-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kat

Hrmm just for referance..

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=547182

Ughhh, dude...that looks like complete ass.