GM killing Pontiac

[NJ Torque]

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

buicks sell like crazy overseas

yup... the car "to have" is a black buick...

[racerx520]

well i remember when oldsmobile was shut down. i cant believe they want to shut down pontiac, its (or atleast was) such a big company and made such memorable cars. im gonna miss them, kinda makes me pissed, i heard about their switch to just re-badging chevy cars but i thought that was just until GM gets out of this funk.

i think if GM needs to cut a company, it should be saab, i hate hate HATE their cars and how crappy they look. man, this blows! seemed like pontiac was just getting good again with the G8 and the GXP Bonneville and stuff like that, such crap, its too bad pontiac couldnt do the firebird i saw prototype drawings of and end it there, atleast they'd go out with a bang, none of this pontiac torrent crap!

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by racerx520

well i remember when oldsmobile was shut down. i cant believe they want to shut down pontiac, its (or atleast was) such a big company and made such memorable cars. im gonna miss them, kinda makes me pissed, i heard about their switch to just re-badging chevy cars but i thought that was just until GM gets out of this funk.

i think if GM needs to cut a company, it should be saab, i hate hate HATE their cars and how crappy they look. man, this blows! seemed like pontiac was just getting good again with the G8 and the GXP Bonneville and stuff like that, such crap, its too bad pontiac couldnt do the firebird i saw prototype drawings of and end it there, atleast they'd go out with a bang, none of this pontiac torrent crap!

Saab is already gone. GM is looking to unload it onto the Sweedish goverment. They dont want it.
GXP Bonni, and the Bonni overall, has been dead for a while now.
A Firebird vehicle would be exactly what GM has been doing wrong for a long time.
40 years ago, when GM owned 60% of the market share, they could make several cars off one platform.
But now they have 20% of the market share, and having 4 variants eating up the same budget to fight cars that are just have ONE entry. So you make 4 decent cars instead of 1 or 2 great cars.
Pontiac, overall, has been dead since 2004. The only new car GM has made for Pontiac since then was the Solstice.
Everything else was a hand me down from another division. Even Toyota.

[BonzoHansen]

Saab is DOA too.

History means nothing. GM killed the body cladding division, whoops I mean Pontiac, years ago with crapola ugly product. It comes down to cost and GM can't afford all these name plates anymore. And not that many people buy Pontiacs. And they cannot afford to make different platforms for each brand, and everyone cries "this car is just that car rebadged". Right.

For all you whining about PMD going DOA, were any of you really going to buy a new one in the next 2 years, or have in the past 2 years? Talk doesn't pay the bills.

[BigAls87Z28]

Exactly. While Pontiac does have the #2 best selling brand for GM, its overlap that GM needs to get rid of.
Chevy, Buick, GMC and Caddy. thats your Future GM.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

For all you whining about PMD going DOA, were any of you really going to buy a new one in the next 2 years, or have in the past 2 years? Talk doesn't pay the bills.

BINGO

[BurninrubberGT]

wow this sucks even more now i just realized a 4 peat in rolex for the gt championship is out of the question for pontiac

pontiac swept the series today at VIR too

[maroman88]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Exactly. While Pontiac does have the #2 best selling brand for GM, its overlap that GM needs to get rid of.
Chevy, Buick, GMC and Caddy. thats your Future GM.

so they wanna get rid of the overlap... and are KEEPING gmc...? lol cuz not having a single original model is great for not overlapping... sierra = silverado, yukon = tahoe, yukon xl = suburban, accadia = traverse, envoy = trailblazer, canyon = colorado, and so on... save for the P=I=M=P Denali packages they're useless

[Mike]

Originally Posted by maroman88

so they wanna get rid of the overlap... and are KEEPING gmc...? lol cuz not having a single original model is great for not overlapping... sierra = silverado, yukon = tahoe, yukon xl = suburban, accadia = traverse, envoy = trailblazer, canyon = colorado, and so on... save for the P=I=M=P Denali packages they're useless

besides the box trucks, dump trucks and other heavy duty fleet vehicles

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by maroman88

so they wanna get rid of the overlap... and are KEEPING gmc...? lol cuz not having a single original model is great for not overlapping... sierra = silverado, yukon = tahoe, yukon xl = suburban, accadia = traverse, envoy = trailblazer, canyon = colorado, and so on... save for the P=I=M=P Denali packages they're useless

Overlap can be overlooked when you bring in profits like the trucks do.
The research shows that people who buy GMC trucks will not switch to Chevy trucks, but go to Dodge or Toyota.
Odd huh.
Kind of line the 2nd car most Mustang owners looked at was not the Camaro, but the Grand Am.

Other nugget of info.
GMC Yukon/Yukon Denali owners tend to have a higher net income then Escalade owners.

IMO...GMC should be turned into GM's Land Rover/Jeep division.

Make a Wrangler fighter, Yukon goes after the LR3/4 type SUV, kill Acadia, Keep new Terrain, then throw in your pick ups.

[Mike]

al, that's because lots of escalade owners don't report their income to the irs. lol

[racerx520]

this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?

and i am gonna miss pontiac, just thought it was a great car company in my own opinion, but thats just me, i'll still be a GM guy, but not a chevy guy lol. a damn shame is what this is. and you say that pontiac has been dead since 04, which i would have to say, they've been going downhill since before that, since when they started making mini vans and all that crap, i was really hoping to see one of my favorite car brands make a 180 and start being something to be extra proud of again.

and i would have to agree that GM should start fighting other companies other than just ford vehicles, they have enough branches, someone told me hummer was cut too...if they havent, i think they should make hummers cheap and more jeep like, make them able to go in the mud without instantly needing to get them detailed for 300 bucks the next day, make them actually durable and give them back the diesel engines, none of this 5cyl or 390 ci crap and get rid of the H2's and H3's, they suck, i think thats where GM REALLY went wrong, trying to make hummer into a big selling company when theyre only in the market for those who buy hair gel or rogaine in bulk or go to the skanky bars/clubs.

and im glad to hear saab is gone, that was another thing GM just pis sed into the wind with, blowing money away when we could probably have had seen more/better cars.

someone also said it too, get rid of all these FWD cars, no one likes them, just start doing rear wheel drive again.

one thing that i thought of which i found kinda funny was, here are all these japanese companies making hybrids, and small cars, and efficient cars. then when you come to the U.S. its all about the big muscle cars still, i mean GM needs to get this Volt out i think to really satisfy the tree huggers out there and help increase their sales. thatsjust my thinking

thats really all i can think to complain about for now, im sure lot of people dont agree with me, but thats just my thinking with GM and how they really need to save themselves

[NjbadSS]

I was thinking the same thing myself..will the value of older pontiac vehicles go up from this or drop?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by racerx520

this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?

someone also said it too, get rid of all these FWD cars, no one likes them, just start doing rear wheel drive again.

they dont make the parts anymore, why would they become harder to get than they already were? i doubt it will have any affect at all on the values of third and fourth gens, as they were produced in such large quantities.

and your other point.......if no one wanted front wheel drive, honda and toyota wouldnt be selling so many cars....

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by racerx520

this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?

Who knows at this point. They are not as desirable as older cars, but its possible that in 20 years or so it could be.

and i am gonna miss pontiac, just thought it was a great car company in my own opinion, but thats just me, i'll still be a GM guy, but not a chevy guy lol. a damn shame is what this is. and you say that pontiac has been dead since 04, which i would have to say, they've been going downhill since before that, since when they started making mini vans and all that crap, i was really hoping to see one of my favorite car brands make a 180 and start being something to be extra proud of again.

Before Minivans, there was wagons, and Pontiac had wagons.
People wanted minivans after Chrysler brought out the Caravan/Voyager/T&C tripple team and it swept the US Automotive world.
Pontiac might have been going downhill in your eyes, but I think that most people think that these companies only made super muscle cars that were blazing fast.
In real life, most Chevy's, Pontiacs, and all the rest of the automakers just made cars to suit the rest of the publics need, to get form point a to b.

Its the same idea that the GTO was this all powerful super awesome muscle car that had its own everything, when it in fact was just a Tempest/Lemans, which is equivlient to the Grand Am or G6 today. Yes, it turned into its own vehicle, but its design, body pannels, interior is all Tempest/Lemans.
Same goes for these mystical SS cars that roamed the streets. Not all of them were big honkin 454 powerd muscle cars. Most were SS 350 cars running low 15's to high 14's.
As I digress...your opinion on Pontiac's downfall is your own, but dont think that because it started to sell minivans did it start to fall.
I dont know what Pontiac could have made that would have stopped people in thier tracks and buy them again. Pontiac the brand is heavily purchased by women, so I guess you could say that Pontiac hurt itself when it stopped making SUV's and Minivans and moved to Solstice, GTO's, G8's and G6 coupes.
You want to know what the best outcome would be?
Reports say that if the Fiat-Chrysler deal doesnt go through, Fiat will hook back up with GM, and if thats teh case, there should be a short-track mission to get Alfa's built here in the US as Pontiacs.
Fiat should be sold under Saturn.
Fiat took a lot of GM technology (and 2 billion dollars) when they spit up sevearl years ago. Most of Alfa's cars are built off of GM's Epsilon or Delta platform. Fiat and GM share diesel engine technology. Alfa's 3.2 V6 is based off GM's 2.8/3.0/3.6 V6 engines.
Pray that the Fiat-Chyrsler deal falls through. That to me would be Pontiac's only hope.

and i would have to agree that GM should start fighting other companies other than just ford vehicles, they have enough branches, someone told me hummer was cut too...if they havent, i think they should make hummers cheap and more jeep like, make them able to go in the mud without instantly needing to get them detailed for 300 bucks the next day, make them actually durable and give them back the diesel engines, none of this 5cyl or 390 ci crap and get rid of the H2's and H3's, they suck, i think thats where GM REALLY went wrong, trying to make hummer into a big selling company when theyre only in the market for those who buy hair gel or rogaine in bulk or go to the skanky bars/clubs.

GM has been trying to sell Hummer for a year now. Lots of tire kickers, but no offers now. GM has mismanaged that brand to no end, not to mention the image it gained from gas guzzler to its global outlook of a brand that makes US Military equipment. Strike's 1, 2 and 3.
Did GM do wrong by making the H2 and H3? Not at all. The two are very capeable trucks. I think that the cartoonish design, the over the top look, brought down the brand. They had the chance to make a true luxury truck division, a domestic Land Rover complete with all the abilities and history to go with it. I think that the H3 was thier best SUV, and I really wish that the platform is tranferd over to GMC as a midsized rugged SUV.
GM didnt expect "big" sales numbers, but they wanted a full range of Hummer vehicles. Hummer had really good advertising too...its a shame it had no design guidence.

and im glad to hear saab is gone, that was another thing GM just pis sed into the wind with, blowing money away when we could probably have had seen more/better cars.

How wrong you are. Saab was a huge advantage for GM to have. The basis for the Ecotec engine came from Saab. Saab's advanced knowlage of turbocharging helped GM develop better and more powerful engines. The Epsilon FWD platform that was co-devleoped with Saab and GM along with Fiat, forms the basic structure for cars like the Chevy Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura, Saab 9-3, Opel/Vaux Vectra, Alfa 159 and its variants, along with second generation Epsilon cars like the brand new Buick LaCrosse, Opel/Vaux/Buick Insigna/Regal, and next generation Malibu. It is rumored to also underpin an upcoming Caddy flagship. Ep2 has an advanced Haladex AWD system that can be seen under certain cars like the Saab 9-3 TurboX, or the new Opel/Vaux Insigna OPC/VXR making 325hp. The system can push almost 100% of power to the rear tires if it detects slipping.
Saab, out of all the brands, is the biggest lost. Another brand that was run into the ground as GM raped and pillaged it for technology. Saab gets a few outgoing presents such as heavily updated 9-3, a new 9-5 that will debut soon, as well as the upcoming 9-4X crossover.

someone also said it too, get rid of all these FWD cars, no one likes them, just start doing rear wheel drive again.

As said before, if that was the case, BMW would be the #1 selling brand on this planet, followed by other brands like Benz, Holden, Infinity, Caddy, most of Lexus, etc etc.
FWD is easier to package, easier to make, and easier to design around.

one thing that i thought of which i found kinda funny was, here are all these japanese companies making hybrids, and small cars, and efficient cars. then when you come to the U.S. its all about the big muscle cars still, i mean GM needs to get this Volt out i think to really satisfy the tree huggers out there and help increase their sales. thatsjust my thinking

Well, apparently you are a little lost.
No one, not even all-mighty Toyota, has more cars that get over 30mpg then GM. Problem is just as you put it...at least perception wise, that GM concentrates on making muscle cars.
They arent putting the Volt out to "satisfy" tree huggers. Its to show that GM can lead in the technology sector, that it can develop a game changing vehicle, and that they can combine there powerful engineering resources to making a vehicle that can do more then any hybird vehicle to date has been able to do.
But the Volt, at the end of the day, hurt GM more. GM will lose money on every car. But Toyota loses money on every Prius they sell too.
Cars like the upcoming Chevy Cruze, with the ability to hit 40mpg or greater with no help from hybrid technology, is what will save GM. They can turn out several hundred thousand of these vehicles, making a solid compact car for teh first time in...ever, and perhaps turn a profit after a year or so of selling them.

Making Firebirds, RWD performance cars, and the like wont save GM. At this point, they are thier own worst enemy.
Poor marketing, poor brand direction, poor vehicle management, ****** PR team, and a solid 30 year run on being the tail end of quality, design, durability, has taken its toll and most americans wont ever consider a GM vehicle. Throw in the fact that they are paraded in front of national TV talking about how they are gunna fail, and how the hell are you gunna get people to buy thier vehicles? It was on everyones lips at the autoshow. Everyone I talked to at both press and public days kept brining up the same stupid "well, who knows if they will be around much longer."

Let me put it this way. While the name GM might disappear, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and Buick names will not. They will be bought up, cut up, moved around, what have you, but these names will not be going anywhere.

[BonzoHansen]

"this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?"

You buying lots of parts at the dealer? Probably not, so the question is moot.

IMO people with newer (2003+) will see the biggest drop in value. By drop I mean owners will take a beating (sorry James, Craig, John, Brian, etc.). Hell, I bought my 2002 Olds Intrigue new off the dealer lot after the decision to kill olds was made and I got that car so cheap it was insane. That news alone made the dealer invoice the true MSRP (ie high $$ point).

IMO it will not hurt the value of old cars, and a nice 3rd gen T/A should hold current (and rising) value because these cars are less bought for daily use so the buying criteria/process is much different. 4th gens are loosing value now as the new camaro, stang, genesis, challenger and such hit the road and they are still just "used cars".

"As said before, if that was the case, BMW would be the #1 selling brand on this planet, followed by other brands like Benz, Holden, Infinity, Caddy, most of Lexus, etc etc.
FWD is easier to package, easier to make, and easier to design around. "

And for 90% of the public, much easier to drive, especially in rain/snow.

[LS1Hawk]

Originally Posted by NJNETSFAN

Oh...poor Trans am owners

Have you looked at the banner on the top of this forum lately? It's an F-Body club. You act like the Firebird is a Mustang. I'm sure if it were Chevrolet getting killed Camaro owners would be just as upset.

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

For all you whining about PMD going DOA, were any of you really going to buy a new one in the next 2 years, or have in the past 2 years? Talk doesn't pay the bills.

No. I have already decided my next car is going to be a 2010 or 11 LaCrosse. But it's not the buyer's fault when Pontiac isn't offering something the public wants. GM could have made Pontiac a surviving brand years ago. They decided Pontiac's fate, not the buyer, when they took the excitement and heritage out of the division. The bigger issue to me here is the fact that another iconic, American brand is lost and gone forever.

[racerx520]

i didnt realize that saab was that big of a company for GM, i never really saw much good from them really, always thought they were really ugly and the few people i knew that owned them said they broke down as much as VW's

and yes, i must agree that the world seems to have fallen for the FWD, and i understand why, just still not much of a fan lol

and youre right that unless i get parts from a dealer, it shouldnt be harder to get parts, but i also wasnt sure if this meant aftermarket companies may just stop dealing with pontiac parts to begin with. and i asked about 3rd gen values because as of the last couple years the value of my car has slowly, very slowly been coming up fromt he bottom and appreciating barely. but i'll have to wait another 20 yrs for it to be worth much? so a 42 year old car? man, i guess i better get a good car cover once i get a truck lol

[jims69camaro]

as far as cars appreciating in value or not, that won't be tied into pontiac's demise. cars closer to the current model year will be impacted the most.

things take a long time to come around from just being considered junk to being valued for the history or whatever and saved/cherished. while you may be doing that now, the rest of the public takes a long time to come around to that type of thinking. while you might have seen a slight increase in used-car prices, specifically your year/model, we are a long way off from exponential price increases. it was only back in the early '90s that the first gen camaro saw the first of its price surges thanks to the auction houses. that didn't automatically make a 1970 1/2 Z28 worth any more or any less. only recently have the earlier second gens been increasing in worth. remember, it's what the person will pay, not the sticker price that will increase the value of a car. you can put whatever price you want to on a car, but that doesn't mean that people will actually pay that.

[5.7TA]

Aww man this sucks, parts are gonna get expensive now. Yeah there has been a lot of talk about Pontiac dying as a division of GM for a little bit now, so this comes as no surprise, although I had hoped they were all rumors though

[BigAls87Z28]

Parts wont be expensive because they share so much with other GM products.
Stop having panic attacks, everyone. If you own an LS1, you should be used to getting raped in the ass on the price of headers, heads/cam packages, etc etc.

[miketa95]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Overlap can be overlooked when you bring in profits like the trucks do.
The research shows that people who buy GMC trucks will not switch to Chevy trucks, but go to Dodge or Toyota.
Odd huh.

Yeah I can vouch for that. My dad owned an 01 Sierra and was convinced that his truck was made "on a truck assembly line" while the silverado was made "on a car assembly line," and therefore he would never consider buying a chevy truck.

[firebirdcrazy]

Its one very sad year. The hopes of ever seeing a firebird again just went out the window. I now know that I will never give up my firebird Formula! NEVER!!!!!Its just horrible

GM Just dissapointed me big time

[BurninrubberGT]

its official, pontiac ends in 2010.......i love how people think buick and gmc are safe, they wont last much longer than pontiac


R.I.P. Pontiac, gm will never see one of my family members in their showroom again

[BonzoHansen]

Pay attention, GMC makes real trucks so that name plate will survive, and Buick is a bigger seller worldwide so it is reasonably safe and could even expand. Make the G8 a Regal!