how to make a second gen look small. - Page 2 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Mike · 06-09-2009, 09:30 PM

i knows, i read the other 4999 times you said it.... but it was a cool pic and i thought of a pot stirring title. relax.

BigAls87Z28 · 06-09-2009, 09:36 PM

No, cause it gets people like Nasty thinking he is right.

Its not BIGGER, it just looks bigger.
I feel like its the 10th century and Im trying to explain that the world is not flat, it just looks like it is.

Mike · 06-09-2009, 09:37 PM

its taller right?

myfoot2020 · 06-09-2009, 09:48 PM

the new camaro is not an f-body, it's built off the Caddy CTS chassis, that's the only way this car made it to production, shared components, suspension, drive line and so on. It's a big car but claustrophobic inside.
My late second gen is a couple inches lower than my fourth gen SS as an example how short those cars are.
Jury's still out on the new camaro, the 2010 mustang is growing on me though.

NJ346 · 06-09-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myfoot2020

the new camaro is not an f-body, it's built off the Caddy CTS chassis, that's the only way this car made it to production, shared components, suspension, drive line and so on. It's a big car but claustrophobic inside.
My late second gen is a couple inches lower than my fourth gen SS as an example how short those cars are.
Jury's still out on the new camaro, the 2010 mustang is growing on me though.

wow your a ****ing idiot bro and your going to piss off al. If you don't have correct info, don't post. Camaro is on the Zeta Platform and the only other Us car that is on it is the G8.

BigAls87Z28 · 06-09-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myfoot2020

the new camaro is not an f-body, it's built off the Caddy CTS chassis, that's the only way this car made it to production, shared components, suspension, drive line and so on. It's a big car but claustrophobic inside.
My late second gen is a couple inches lower than my fourth gen SS as an example how short those cars are.
Jury's still out on the new camaro, the 2010 mustang is growing on me though.

Wrong, all around wrong

The Camaro is built off the Austrailian "VE" platform, better known in American as Zeta.
Camaro uses a variation of Zeta, with upgraded components and labled Zeta 2.
CTS's Sigma platform and Holden's Zeta platform share nothing but Bolt pattern.

Ill even go into a bit of detain
Sigma and Sigma 2 (what sits under the 2nd gen CTS) uses an Short/Long arm front suspension where Zeta uses a strut set up.
Zeta's rear suspension is very compact and made of stamped steel. Sigma's rear set up uses aluminum and steel components, but its not nearly as compact.
Zeta's platform is also very flexible, making everything from a 4 door family car, to a 4 door luxury long wheel base car, to a 2 door pick up, a station wagon, and a 2 door sports car.
Sigma 2 has 1 car.
Sigma 1 had 3 cars.

And yes, Camaro is 2 inches taller and an inch wider.

Mike · 06-09-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

And yes, Camaro is 2 inches taller and an inch wider.

so its bigger...........you cant just pick length and say the car is smaller

NastyEllEssWon · 06-09-2009, 10:15 PM

the car IS bigger. you cant tell me that its not. ive actually sat in them. ive seen them, felt them, touched them, PARKED NEXT TO THEM. your not going to convince me otherwise.

the only problem i have with the size is you have all that size but no benefit of it. hell at least the g8 has a larger interior. the g8 actually makes more sense than the new ''camaro'' cause its not trying to be something its not. this car has more of a chevelle feel to it.

far be it from me to stop your gm fanboy fun though al...i mean...really...if its so great...why not go buy one?

but if we all took your word for it we'd all own caprices and third gens.

BonzoHansen · 06-10-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

so its bigger...........you cant just pick length and say the car is smaller

I agree with Mike. It is bigger. Both in reality and to the eye.

Yes, it is 2.8” shorter than a 4th gen, mostly because 4th gens have noses inspired by Sarah Jessica Parker, it is 2.9” taller and 1.4” wider and ~400 pounds heavier.

During a similar discussion at NastyZ I threw this info together while I watched a Yankee game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

It's the width & height that make this thing look so damn big too, along with the high belt line. I guess the down side of being based on a 4 dr chassis. IMO it is still maybe 400 pounds too heavy. At least it (and the occupants) will survive a hit way better than the older ones and the HP & MPG and clean tail pipe emissions too. The V6 car continues to impress. The better V6 handling numbers IMO show the adverse impact of the unsprung weight of SUV sized wheels & tires, although I could be at least partially wrong on that.

I still have hopes of buying a 2012 model.

************************************************** *****************
From my Camaro white book (except weight as noted)

Code:

Year	WB	Len	Ht	Width	Weight (wt data source)
1967	108.0	184.6	51.0	72.5	3393 (based on white book data incl common options)
1970	108.0	188.0	50.1	74.4	3313 (nastyZ, unknown options)
1974	108.0	195.4	49.1	74.4	3840 (nastyZ, unknown options)
1982	101.0	187.8	49.8	72.0	3273 (92 Z28 HT, 3rdgen.org, unknown options)
1993	101.1	193.2	51.3	74.1	3577 (02 Camaro jalopnik, unknown options)
2010	112.3	190.4	54.2	75.5	3860 (GM, 1SS 6 speed)

I'll tell you how I backed into 67 weight number. All from the Camaro White Book.

I tried to compare a similarly optioned car to the 2010 1SS Coupe:

Code:

V8 Hardtop	3070
...then add...
PW		21
AC		86
PB		20
Fr Discs	33
350		72
DUEL EXH	38
PS		29
HD BATTERY	15
AM-FM		9
		-----
	 	3393

Or w/o PW or AC
V8 Hardtop	3070 
...then add...
PB		20
Fr Discs	33
350		72
DUEL EXH	38
PS		29
HD BATTERY	15
AM-FM		9
		-----
	 	3286

Your results may vary. LOL

*************************************

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

You are thinking of the Challenger.

Code:

					LS Coupe	1LT Coupe	2LT Coupe	1SS Coupe	2SS Coupe

Curb weight, manual,   lbs. (kg) 	3780 (1715) 	3741 (1697) 	3741 (1697) 	3860 (1751) 	3860 (1751)
Curb weight, auto,     lbs. (kg) 	3769 (1710) 	3750 (1701) 	3750 (1701) 	3913 (1775) 	3913 (1775)

sweetbmxrider · 06-10-2009, 10:50 AM

sjp

BigAls87Z28 · 06-10-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

the car IS bigger. you cant tell me that its not. ive actually sat in them. ive seen them, felt them, touched them, PARKED NEXT TO THEM. your not going to convince me otherwise.
the only problem i have with the size is you have all that size but no benefit of it. hell at least the g8 has a larger interior. the g8 actually makes more sense than the new ''camaro'' cause its not trying to be something its not. this car has more of a chevelle feel to it.
far be it from me to stop your gm fanboy fun though al...i mean...really...if its so great...why not go buy one?

but if we all took your word for it we'd all own caprices and third gens.

You can think whate everyo u want. 4th gen is longer.
Yes, the 5th gen is taller and a touch wider.

G8 is bigger then Challenger, I belive near 200 inches long. It is also...wait for it...a sedan with 4 doors.

I dont know how this car is not a Camaro. Define a Camaro for me, if you would. If the 2010 is not a Camaro, then the 4th gen was never a Camaro either, and therefor the Firebird was not a Firebird.
You have all what size? I dont know what you expect to get out of a 2 door four seater sports car?
If you want the space, they have a g8. If you want a coupe, you have Camaro.
If you dont like the car because of whatever convoluted ideas you have, thats fine. But dont pass them off as the truth.

I planning on it buying one.

Scott, someone on CZ28 pulled up a first gen that could match the 2010 SS in the 1/4, turning it into a 396 SS, and it put the weight of the car north of 3600lbs.

NastyEllEssWon · 06-10-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

You can think whate everyo u want. 4th gen is longer.
Yes, the 5th gen is taller and a touch wider.

G8 is bigger then Challenger, I belive near 200 inches long. It is also...wait for it...a sedan with 4 doors.

I dont know how this car is not a Camaro. Define a Camaro for me, if you would. If the 2010 is not a Camaro, then the 4th gen was never a Camaro either, and therefor the Firebird was not a Firebird.
You have all what size? I dont know what you expect to get out of a 2 door four seater sports car?
If you want the space, they have a g8. If you want a coupe, you have Camaro.
If you dont like the car because of whatever convoluted ideas you have, thats fine. But dont pass them off as the truth.

I planning on it buying one.

well im sorry but this is the exact definition of a camaro straight from gm when they unveiled it.

Quote:

The new Camaro name was then unveiled. Automotive press asked Chevrolet product managers, "What is a Camaro?" and were told it was "a small, vicious animal that eats Mustangs.

the new Mustang is smaller and meaner than the new camaro. so hence this isnt a camaro in the original vein they designed it. its a horrible rebadge.

When i say its bigger i mean all around THE CAR IS IMMENSE. ITS HUGE. I didnt buy my trans am for the interior space....but if i was to buy a car such as the new camaro I would expect to have a decent sized interior for such a SEDAN SIZED CAR.

who cares that its longer. the new camaro is so much taller and bulkier. hell the rear decklid comes halfway up a 4th gens hatch.

i can show you like 10 posts where you say that the 5th gen isnt bigger at all. Thats convoluted truth there my friend. its bigger in every way. and now you come in because your buddies mike and bonzo have shown you that its huge and youll finally agree ''its a touch taller and wider.''

and like said before. the only reason the 4th gens are longer is because of their more aerodynamically pointed low slung nose.

the new camaro is a rolling brick. fitting that youd like it

BonzoHansen · 06-10-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Scott, someone on CZ28 pulled up a first gen that could match the 2010 SS in the 1/4, turning it into a 396 SS, and it put the weight of the car north of 3600lbs.

I'll get back to you on that, but I don't dismiss it.

BigAls87Z28 · 06-10-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

well im sorry but this is the exact definition of a camaro straight from gm when they unveiled it.

the new Mustang is smaller and meaner than the new camaro. so hence this isnt a camaro in the original vein they designed it. its a horrible rebadge.

When i say its bigger i mean all around THE CAR IS IMMENSE. ITS HUGE. I didnt buy my trans am for the interior space....but if i was to buy a car such as the new camaro I would expect to have a decent sized interior for such a SEDAN SIZED CAR.

who cares that its longer. the new camaro is so much taller and bulkier. hell the rear decklid comes halfway up a 4th gens hatch.

i can show you like 10 posts where you say that the 5th gen isnt bigger at all. Thats convoluted truth there my friend. its bigger in every way. and now you come in because your buddies mike and bonzo have shown you that its huge and youll finally agree ''its a touch taller and wider.''

and like said before. the only reason the 4th gens are longer is because of their more aerodynamically pointed low slung nose.

the new camaro is a rolling brick. fitting that youd like it

First off, the Mustang is meaner? How so?
Camaro was always bigger then Mustang. 4th gens were, IIRC, a nearly a food longer then Mustangs.

The car is not immense, it is not huge. If the 5th gen is immense, then the 4th gen is an oil tanker.

I have always said that the Camaro is taller and wider. but marginally.
Again, its size is percieved to be bigger because of its design, not because of its actual dimensions.

Camaro's interior is plenty spacious. Plenty of leg room for both driver and passanger, and you standard issue small rear seat.
Camaro is not that much taller or wider then a 4th gen. You talk as if it was a Silverado.

The 4th gens are long because it was designed like ****. It was designed on, at the time, a 11 year old chassis with a smaller wheel base. It went from 18x inches long with the third gen, also suffering from massive front overhangs, and went further and made it bigger.

Again, if by your deffinition of Camaro, no Camaro outside of the first gen was ever a Camaro. In fact, the closest any "Camaro" has come to the size of an equivilent Mustang would be the 2010 Camaro vs the 2010 Mustang. with less then 2 inches seperating the two cars, this current Camaro is the smallest Camaro offerd in nearly 20 years.
Again...we can keep doing this, but you are wrong.
You dont like the car? Thats fine. Steer you ass out of these threads.
Want to keep making **** up and saying things that you have personally never actually seen or done yourself? Expect to be called out on it.

And I drive rolling bricks? You do realize that my third gen has a better cD then your lumpy Trans Am?
And you realize that my all steel and iron third gen is lighter then your plastic and aluminum Trans Am?

87GTA · 06-10-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Ahem...
For the 5000th ****ing time
The Camaro is SMALLER then the outgoing 4th gen, and is a much safter and stronger car. Its additional 300lbs from a 2002 SS to a 2010 SS comes from stiffer chassis, 20 inch wheels, brakes 2x the size, 4 more air bags, and IRS system.

AL,
you can say it 5001 times and PPL won't listen!!! they want to belive what they think not the facts..ya know

Mike · 06-10-2009, 06:30 PM

al im sorry, the 4th gen is NOT BIGGER, yes its longer, but its lighter, narrower, and shorter.....

the 4 ways to determine size: length, width, height, and weight, the new car is bigger in ALL BUT ONE CATEGORY, so it is a bigger car

Mike · 06-10-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87GTA

AL,
you can say it 5001 times and PPL won't listen!!! they want to belive what they think not the facts..ya know

and you want to agree with al just because? like i just said, the only claim it can make is SHORTER. it is still a bigger car

BigAls87Z28 · 06-10-2009, 06:36 PM

In the end, we are talking about inches.
Its a touch taller, and little wider. Fine, its bigger.

BonzoHansen · 06-10-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

In the end, we are talking about inches.
Its a touch taller, and little wider. Fine, its bigger.

The 1st step in recovery is acceptance

NastyEllEssWon · 06-10-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

First off, the Mustang is meaner? How so?
Camaro was always bigger then Mustang. 4th gens were, IIRC, a nearly a food longer then Mustangs.

The car is not immense, it is not huge. If the 5th gen is immense, then the 4th gen is an oil tanker.

I have always said that the Camaro is taller and wider. but marginally.
Again, its size is percieved to be bigger because of its design, not because of its actual dimensions.

Again...we can keep doing this, but you are wrong.
You dont like the car? Thats fine. Steer you ass out of these threads.
Want to keep making **** up and saying things that you have personally never actually seen or done yourself? Expect to be called out on it.

you just got proven wrong. and your still saying that im wrong. only when your buddy mike agrees do you concede your point.

Ive never actually touched a 5th gen? sat in one? put my car side by side with one? really? wanna come on out to the chevy dealer in bordentown. they had a few last time i was there. but again. your right. mr big al.

because we all know how much stock we put into auto zone counter help.

and yes your cars are bricks. boat anchor lt1 and anchor 305.

top of the line Mustang vs top of the line New Camaro...guess what...the mustang is faster, smaller, lighter...MEANER.

you my friend are a tool. the worst kind in the box.

Mike · 06-10-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

you just got proven wrong. and your still saying that im wrong. only when your buddy mike agrees do you concede your point.

Ive never actually touched a 5th gen? sat in one? put my car side by side with one? really? wanna come on out to the chevy dealer in bordentown. they had a few last time i was there. but again. your right. mr big al.

because we all know how much stock we put into auto zone counter help.

and yes your cars are bricks. boat anchor lt1 and anchor 305.

top of the line Mustang vs top of the line New Camaro...guess what...the mustang is faster, smaller, lighter...MEANER.

you my friend are a tool. the worst kind in the box.

utterly unnecessary

Anti_Rice_Guy · 06-10-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

boat anchor lt1.

His Caprice is TBI, not an LT1. He almost bought the LT1 but didn't.

NastyEllEssWon · 06-10-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

utterly unnecessary

im sorry if i took his posts a little too personal but serious. to say that i didnt do what i said. im a liar and he's calling me out on it is a bit too far.

the sword has two edges too. im tired of reading him running around posting saying everyone else is posting opinions when he is the epitome of fanboy opinion posting

edit: especially when i really was holding out hope for the new camaro to be cool.

NJ346 · 06-10-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

top of the line Mustang vs top of the line New Camaro...guess what...the mustang is faster, smaller, lighter...MEANER.

Show me a $32K mustang that is faster than a $32K Camaro...

NastyEllEssWon · 06-10-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJNETSFAN

Show me a $32K mustang that is faster than a $32K Camaro...

just about the same. its called the mustang gt track pack

edit: and its about 1500 over top the base 27k mustang gt prices