R12 Freon for my 1991 Formula

[edpontiac91]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Interesting topic. It made me do some reading. Some quick notes I caught from AC professionals at http://www.autoacforum.com

"Freeze 12 is 80 percent R134a and when used with an R12 accumulator/drier the desiccant bag can break causing a compressor failure."<-- this is the comment that would make me run.

"Freeze 12 is 80% 134a and 20% 142b. It is EPA approved but does not have OEM approval. Using it requires a "Basic" retrofit including only evacuation, Fittings and Labels."
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig.../refblend.html backs this comment.

A few interesting threads on it:
http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...E=&STARTPAGE=2
http://www.autoacforum.com/messagevi...AR_MSGDBTABLE=

It is a replacement for R12, but it needs to be retrofitted, it should not be mixed. Plus if you mix it (or even just use it) you may have trouble getting proper AC service (if you are up front with the AC guy).
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig...tml#conditions

Many comments lead me to think you should try to find a can of R12. If need be the certification to get it is easy. Even I have the cert here somewhere. http://www.macsw.org/certification.php

To use Freeze12 it would appear to be easier to retrofit to 134.

WOW, Fantastic information. It clears up a LOT of questions about this stuff. Like I said, my system is fine. Like any normal A/C, it requires a little shot of Freon every 3-5 years, so if I get a couple of cans I should be good to go for quite awhile. Thanks again for all the information.

[NumberTwo]

You just may be in luck. If you're in Piscataway, then you know where the Sovereign bank and Gino's car stereo shop is at the corner of Stelton and S Washington. My store is on the dead end. There was a "Damaged" can at the warehouse that they're supposedly shipping to me tomorrow. A cap wont fit on it, but you can still get a side puncture tool which will work. I should have it after lunch time and Im open till 5.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by JSPERFORMANCE

It is illegal to refill ANY known leaking a/c system with 134a.

You positive about that? Those "cans of air" are generally R134a and you can buy a side tap adapter to use them on your system because they are generally cheaper than the stuff for the A/C in the car. I know because I have seen the cans and the adapters. I think it is a lot cheaper because it doesnt have the lubricant already in it?

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by scooter

You positive about that? Those "cans of air" are generally R134a and you can buy a side tap adapter to use them on your system because they are generally cheaper than the stuff for the A/C in the car. I know because I have seen the cans and the adapters. I think it is a lot cheaper because it doesnt have the lubricant already in it?

Technically, yes. It is illegal to fill any known leaking system...

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Technically, yes. It is illegal to fill any known leaking system...

Interesting, even when people are releasing it all the time........ stupid government

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by scooter

Interesting, even when people are releasing it all the time........ stupid government

It is geared towards shops and such.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

r134a does not have any lubricant in it niether does r12. If you want to add oil you have to use an oil charge or manually add it into an open line or fitting.

[PolarBear]

I have seen cans that have the lubricant added to it.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by scooter

I have seen cans that have the lubricant added to it.

and/or dye. Little cans for the home guy. 30lb cans do not.

[84HOtransam]

ive got a 30lb cylinder of the r12..but like everyone else said its cheaper to just convert to the new stuff..last time i could find a 30lb cylinder to buy it cost about 900 bucks..typical empty car system take just under 3lbs.. my dad is a licensed refigeration tech..he has extensive experience with retrofit products like freeze 12 and from what he has explained to me using too much of it in a system can cause the head pressure to jump way up and the system will just shut down

to properly convert your car you should drain the system completly get a new accumluator and oriface from GM.. get about 6oz of oil and 3lb of the 134a...after the conversion i noticed no difference between the 12 and 134.. although if you measure the temp coming out of the vent r12 runs about 40 degrees and r134 will only get down to 50..

if it just needs a charge just find a shop that has it..i have no idea what it would cost..