2012 Camaro won't be a Z28

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?

I want an LSA in a 4th gen, hell, I would take it in a 3rd gen even.

Ballin wheels = no want.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?

id like to see it on a six banger body so you can have the baddest of the bad without the ugliest of the ugs with the big black ground effects and fog lights and big willie's wheels.

how about this....six cylinder body, probably gonna have to be that hood, 17/18'' plain jane wheels. i just dont like all the jazz that the camaro has going on.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?

Yes and continued i.e. sound deadening. After driving work trucks like that I can't stand fancy vehicles. I'd be perfectly happy with a stripped down no-frills vehicle. Radio is questionable, but I can easily do without heat/ac/power windows, seats, locks.

[r0nin89]

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

Yes and continued i.e. sound deadening. After driving work trucks like that I can't stand fancy vehicles. I'd be perfectly happy with a stripped down no-frills vehicle. Radio is questionable, but I can easily do without heat/ac/power windows, seats, locks.

AM radio nly

Power seats standard is ridiculous IMO. I completely agree with Anti Rice Guy.

It is nice to see they've incorporated alot of supporting characteristics instead of just dropping in a LSA.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

Yes and continued i.e. sound deadening. After driving work trucks like that I can't stand fancy vehicles. I'd be perfectly happy with a stripped down no-frills vehicle. Radio is questionable, but I can easily do without heat/ac/power windows, seats, locks.

...and that would sell about 4 units lol

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Originally Posted by Frosty

...and that would sell about 4 units lol

You asked us what we would want to get rid of, not what would sell

[1QWIKBIRD]

Its typical GM, they dove head first into the parts bin and took the CTS-V stuff and smashed it into the Camaro, then took the nose (lower fog lamp areas look like the V's headlight area upside down?) of the V and the hood of the Vette and smashed them on to the nose of the Camaro. Sure its got incredible power, and a legendary name, and is the most technologically advanced Camaro ever produced but it still isn't a good looking car. It still rolls on hideously large wheels. It still weighs far too much (4100lbs? are you kidding? Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser wagons didn't weigh that much!!!) and I bet by the time it hits the dealer lots it will cost over $50k.

I got an idea. GM should take the LS7 (in full trim, not some detuned version) and stuff it into the fenderwells. Include a true dry sump (not the bastardized thing on the vette's). Lower the car on a true performance suspension, include the trick shocks and other suspension improvements, drop the wheel size down to 18" (make them lightweight as well) with as much brake as you can package. Just put a set of factory headers and a good exhaust on the damn thing (not some 2 tone electric gizmo). Full carbon fiber hood and deck lid. Seat upgrade and steering wheel upgrade.

Get the car to weigh something around 3600-3800lbs by losing the super charger/intercooler, hideous large wheels and corresponding brakes (if the car doesn't weigh so much you won't need as much brake), two tone exhaust and associated wiring and controls, and by doing the carbon hood and decklid. If other things need to be sacrificed, then power seats go bye-bye, followed by excessive sound deadening.

Offer from the factory:
A rear seat delete option with a harness bar.
Functional brake ducting front and rear.
A/C delete.

Do not offer as an option under any circumstances:
Convertible
Moon/Sun Roof
Automatic transmission (paddle shift or not)

If they really are going for on-track performance, that's what they should build or something along those lines.

If you want uber comfort with world class performance, go by a V. If you want world class super car performance, go get the Vette of your choice. If you want a bad ass Camaro, this is your car.

And sell it out the door for no more than $42K with a full tank of gas. Then maybe you could call it a ZL1, but I would still prefer to call it a Z28.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

You asked us what we would want to get rid of, not what would sell

LOL, true. You got me there.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

1) It would certainly be different and factory hipo diesel cars are not GM's forte at this point. Not saying that diesel is 100% the way to go, but it would be a different offering than what they currently have. This is starting to show up the the old iron circles, too. Everybody and their brother does an LS swap into something these days. As an example, the diesel Nova and Chevelle are really turning heads, with others following.

2) Uh, yes? Aluminum blocks were certianly around but not at that level and were significantly more rare. ****, aluminum HEADS were considered "out there", and that's proven by the $$ that L89 cars pull. There's a lot of engineering that went into that project that did not cross over into others. For the time it was very exotic.

Mag shocks have been done (I think back in C5 vettes?) dual mode exhaust has been done, as has electric power steering. Nothing new there.

I dunno, I just think a ZL1 should have a real "WOW" factor. Like the original, or the 572 4th gen concept. This strikes me as a CTS-V on the Camaro chassis (and that's not to hate on the CTS-V or the LSA which I would cut my arm off for), or alternatively it's a factory supercharged Camaro much like some of the tuners are already offering. I don't know what this car needs but it's lacking something to really make it pop. The ZR1 reeks of awesomeness, the CTS-V is a businessman's rocket ship, the diesel pickups have queen mary towing capacity, etc etc. Call it ZL1 if you want, just make it more wild. Considering the environment around the Camaro right now, this thing is downright mediocre.

Then you are way more jaded then even the oldest car journo...

ZL1 packs a lot of stuff, way more then the former ZL1 did. All it had was an engine that cost as much as the whole car did. The rest of the car was nothing. What technology did the rest of it have? ****, it didnt have AC, radio, power seats, windows...were front disk brakes even stardard on a $8,300 car?

Originally Posted by qwikz28

What the heck happened to the new interior for 2012? All I see is a new steering wheel

Dash is altered a bit, this one has Alcantara coverings.

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

holy hell that thing is ugly, what the hell happened to the hood they were showing all over the concepts and what not. that thing screams mustang ripoff. still cant even get functional rear brake vents??


as for the name...couldnt of cared less either. z28 is more recognizable than zl1...told the news to my gf and she was like ''what the hells a ZL1''. seems like something they might have to end up renaming (ala ford 500/taurus). i dont like the giant wheels either. if it really is a zl1 i wanna see at least having the option to buy a stripper. that would be really cool.

Your GF is not the target buyer. Your gf wouldnt know the difference between an S class from a 7 series from a Ferrari.

Originally Posted by Frosty

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

Its typical GM, they dove head first into the parts bin and took the CTS-V stuff and smashed it into the Camaro, then took the nose (lower fog lamp areas look like the V's headlight area upside down?) of the V and the hood of the Vette and smashed them on to the nose of the Camaro. Sure its got incredible power, and a legendary name, and is the most technologically advanced Camaro ever produced but it still isn't a good looking car. It still rolls on hideously large wheels. It still weighs far too much (4100lbs? are you kidding? Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser wagons didn't weigh that much!!!) and I bet by the time it hits the dealer lots it will cost over $50k.

No doubt it weighs a lot, but its a lot lighter then the CTS-V, and that is one fast car.
Large wheels are 22lbs lighter per wheel to teh smaller 20 inch wheels on the SS.
Looks are subjective.

I got an idea. GM should take the LS7 (in full trim, not some detuned version) and stuff it into the fenderwells. Include a true dry sump (not the bastardized thing on the vette's). Lower the car on a true performance suspension, include the trick shocks and other suspension improvements, drop the wheel size down to 18" (make them lightweight as well) with as much brake as you can package. Just put a set of factory headers and a good exhaust on the damn thing (not some 2 tone electric gizmo). Full carbon fiber hood and deck lid. Seat upgrade and steering wheel upgrade.

Get the car to weigh something around 3600-3800lbs by losing the super charger/intercooler, hideous large wheels and corresponding brakes (if the car doesn't weigh so much you won't need as much brake), two tone exhaust and associated wiring and controls, and by doing the carbon hood and decklid. If other things need to be sacrificed, then power seats go bye-bye, followed by excessive sound deadening.

Offer from the factory:
A rear seat delete option with a harness bar.
Functional brake ducting front and rear.
A/C delete.

Do not offer as an option under any circumstances:
Convertible
Moon/Sun Roof
Automatic transmission (paddle shift or not)

If they really are going for on-track performance, that's what they should build or something along those lines.

If you want uber comfort with world class performance, go by a V. If you want world class super car performance, go get the Vette of your choice. If you want a bad ass Camaro, this is your car.

And sell it out the door for no more than $42K with a full tank of gas. Then maybe you could call it a ZL1, but I would still prefer to call it a Z28.

What you want is a Z28, or what I believe to be a real Z28.
This is not supposed to be that type car. This is a GT500 fighter, a super-car for under 60k.
This car is not for you, no doubt. The ZL1 will not be offered with an auto, or a convertable, or with a sunroof.
LS7 costs more then the LSA does by a good margin. Would be easier to make a higher output LS3.


99% of the people on this board are not buying this car. Cars of this caliber, despite the badge, need to have certain things. It needs heated seats. It needs fancy interiors. It needs it because everyone else is doing it.
If they dont, then you guys come on line and say that GM makes 2nd rate cars that dont compete.

[LTb1ow]

So it comes with a pair of dead hookers in the trunk standard? Or is that an option?

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Then you are way more jaded then even the oldest car journo...

ZL1 packs a lot of stuff, way more then the former ZL1 did. All it had was an engine that cost as much as the whole car did. The rest of the car was nothing. What technology did the rest of it have? ****, it didnt have AC, radio, power seats, windows...were front disk brakes even stardard on a $8,300 car?

I thought I was being pretty consistent about only concerning myself with the engine. That is my point. I wish they had done something more off the wall under the hood, like the original. I am fully aware that the wrapper for the ZL1 cars back in 1969 was a stripped down L78 car. I am also aware that that is not where GM wanted to stop with the car, which is a lesser known fact.

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

...snip

No doubt it weighs a lot, but its a lot lighter then the CTS-V, and that is one fast car.
Large wheels are 22lbs lighter per wheel to teh smaller 20 inch wheels on the SS.
Looks are subjective.


What you want is a Z28, or what I believe to be a real Z28.
This is not supposed to be that type car. This is a GT500 fighter, a super-car for under 60k.
This car is not for you, no doubt. The ZL1 will not be offered with an auto, or a convertable, or with a sunroof.
LS7 costs more then the LSA does by a good margin. Would be easier to make a higher output LS3.


99% of the people on this board are not buying this car. Cars of this caliber, despite the badge, need to have certain things. It needs heated seats. It needs fancy interiors. It needs it because everyone else is doing it.
If they dont, then you guys come on line and say that GM makes 2nd rate cars that dont compete.

Well if it needs all these "things" it should also have more extensive use of exotic materials to get the thing under 2 tons. Carbon fiber front fenders, hood and deck lid. If the 22's it rolls on are lighter, then I'd venture a guess that an 18" wheel would be lighter still. If Ford can get their car to 3820 lbs, why can't GM get into the same ballpark? 300lbs is 300lbs?

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

I thought I was being pretty consistent about only concerning myself with the engine. That is my point. I wish they had done something more off the wall under the hood, like the original. I am fully aware that the wrapper for the ZL1 cars back in 1969 was a stripped down L78 car. I am also aware that that is not where GM wanted to stop with the car, which is a lesser known fact.

I really fail to see the difference or what you expected to be that spectacular here? Aluminum engines have been done before, and were put into cars before the ZL1. Rare, yes, but so is a 550hp 4 lobe rotor supercharger considering this is the 3rd car ever to get one from the factory.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I really fail to see the difference or what you expected to be that spectacular here? Aluminum engines have been done before, and were put into cars before the ZL1. Rare, yes, but so is a 550hp 4 lobe rotor supercharger considering this is the 3rd car ever to get one from the factory.

Brian is doing it with an LT1. Tons of people do it all the time to regular ole SBC blocks...

A supercharger doesn't scream exotic to me at all.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

Well if it needs all these "things" it should also have more extensive use of exotic materials to get the thing under 2 tons. Carbon fiber front fenders, hood and deck lid. If the 22's it rolls on are lighter, then I'd venture a guess that an 18" wheel would be lighter still. If Ford can get their car to 3820 lbs, why can't GM get into the same ballpark? 300lbs is 300lbs?

They are forged 20's.
Realize that exotic materials means $$$. The GT500 dropped under 100lbs because it went to an all aluminum engine. GT500 does not have the magnetic shocks or the IRS system the Camaro has. There is a 200lbs difference between the two chassis.

Carbon fiber fenders, hood, and deck lid would be an easy extra 15k in materials. And that would save say 100lbs, since the hood and deck lid are aluminum already, the weight would come out of the fenders. So now its 4k, and now it costs 65k. Lets say it saves 200lbs....stil 65k.


Again, you guys are looking for a different car.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by LTs1ow

Brian is doing it with an LT1. Tons of people do it all the time to regular ole SBC blocks...

A supercharger doesn't scream exotic to me at all.

Superchargers are different, Smash. Dont expect you to know the difference.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Superchargers are different, Smash. Dont expect you to know the difference.

Yes, I realize there are differences in superchargers, but again, ford has been throwing them on mustangs since god knows when. Just cause something is new to GM, does not mean its "exotic".

Just saying and all.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by LTs1ow

Yes, I realize there are differences in superchargers, but again, ford has been throwing them on mustangs since god knows when. Just cause something is new to GM, does not mean its "exotic".

Just saying and all.

The 4 lobe supercharger is not on the Mustang. They use the older 3 lobe guy. Never said it was exotic, just better and the newwest version.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I really fail to see the difference or what you expected to be that spectacular here? Aluminum engines have been done before, and were put into cars before the ZL1. Rare, yes, but so is a 550hp 4 lobe rotor supercharger considering this is the 3rd car ever to get one from the factory.

I understand what you mean. But from what I gather, very few (if any) domestic cars during that time period got aluminum blocks, especially at that power level. The only brand I can think of off of the top of my head that made an aluminum V8 was Buick for a short time in the early 60's. It was unique in the fact that it was the best GM could offer. In this case I really fail to see the wow factor. You said yourself, this is the 3rd car to get one from the factory. So what really sets this apart? That it's in a Camaro? Pricing? If it's pricing I can see that.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

I understand what you mean. But from what I gather, very few (if any) domestic cars during that time period got aluminum blocks, especially at that power level. The only brand I can think of off of the top of my head that made an aluminum V8 was Buick for a short time in the early 60's. It was unique in the fact that it was the best GM could offer. In this case I really fail to see the wow factor. You said yourself, this is the 3rd car to get one from the factory. So what really sets this apart? That it's in a Camaro?

I guess nothing. There is nothing special about this car, what so ever. Its just another big heavy boat with a big boat anchor that will be slow.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I guess nothing. There is nothing special about this car, what so ever. Its just another big heavy boat with a big boat anchor that will be slow.

Oh don't give up pal. Just cause the meanies aren't agreeing with you doesn't mean you should throw in the towel.

[V]

ya know what... if you want it to be a z28, buy them dam car and put 1st gen z28 badges on it... problem solved

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by LTs1ow

Oh don't give up pal. Just cause the meanies aren't agreeing with you doesn't mean you should throw in the towel.

Its not that. Trying to fight history is impossible. There is a time to just not bother. Its not a matter of agreeing with me, because for the most part I understand what they are saying.
Its that some people cannot be pleased. What some people want is just a 69 Camaro, reproduced, with a big block, a M22 4spd manual, 12 bolt rear, dog dish hub caps, and 1320 ft of open road.

Cars are more than just an engine. If this engine is not fancy enough for you because its not exclusive to Camaro and does not offer any sort of gee-wiz wow feature, then there is no pleasing you.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Its not that. Trying to fight history is impossible. There is a time to just not bother. Its not a matter of agreeing with me, because for the most part I understand what they are saying.
Its that some people cannot be pleased. What some people want is just a 69 Camaro, reproduced, with a big block, a M22 4spd manual, 12 bolt rear, dog dish hub caps, and 1320 ft of open road.

Cars are more than just an engine. If this engine is not fancy enough for you because its not exclusive to Camaro and does not offer any sort of gee-wiz wow feature, then there is no pleasing you.

Thats why I like the LT1, limited edition.

[BigAls87Z28]

Actually...rumors are that the LT1 RPO code will return...