What Car Do You Want GM to Build?

[j0n]

new z06...7 litre lsx powerplant estimated to make in the neighborhood of 500 hp...and they're suspesion already competes with european supercars

edit: page 2 by me

[Fasterthanyou]

Originally Posted by SpeakersGoBoom

does GM currently make any cars like that? completely impractical, rediculously expensive cars that get a fraction of a mile to the gallon, but are able to be considered "supercars"? that can compete with cars like ferrari, lambo, etc?

They don't. They have prototype cars that the engineers to nutz on, and then back off to like "normal way over priced ugly junk with nothing special about it."
Oh, and mph had almost nothing to do with the engine horsepower and everything to do with tuning, gearing, and vehicle weight. Those 32v heads might flow a ton but that just means I can run a smaller cam with that turbo and make awesome low end grunt. Then there's the like 2400lbs which takes less work to move than something that weight 1000lbs more (less work = less energy = less power). Don't forget the transmission, with the 6 speeds and like 3.73's out back I'd bet I'd get 16city/30highway. The highway would be effected by the cars aero and which tires I choose. Trust me, hp does NOT = gass guzzler. The c5 vettes are a perfect example.

[BigAls87Z28]

This is personal creation, something that you want to see GM build. I mean, be reasonable. I dont think that Chevy would make a supercar...but lets see some good ideas.

COPO would be too expensive. Cars are build with ac and power door locks and etc etc....removing them and replacing them with something else would actualy make the car more expensive because they would have to develop a manual way of doing it.
COPO was a pretty big failure at its time. 69 cars, 50 sold to Frank Gibb...and he only sold a handful. Now, yeah the cars are monsters of the drag strip and legends of there time...but then...no one wanted to pay near 9k for a no equipment Camaro with just a big engine unless they wanted to race it.

Anyway, come up with an original idea. I want to do a report for GMI about enthusiast dreams, but I wana hear more about something other then Camaro or Firebird or Corvette.

[Fasterthanyou]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

but I wana hear more about something other then Camaro or Firebird or Corvette.

You're asking the wrong forum bud... it's NJFBOA.org, we're all slightly biased.
Really though, bring back the turbo typhoon, even with those crappy swirl port heads the thing was in the 13's stock! I'm sure they could get the new one into the mid 13's at the drop of a hat. If you have a poll, put that option in.

[j0n]

take those gay looking "xtreme" s-10s and blazers and throw in the new school 3.8 with a turbo...so they are fast and gay...as opposed to just gay lol

[Fasterthanyou]

Originally Posted by j0n

take those gay looking "xtreme" s-10s and blazers and throw in the new school 3.8 with a turbo...so they are fast and gay...as opposed to just gay lol

So you wouldn't feel bad loosing to a gay truck? lol

[j0n]

lol if it had an awd turbo 3.8 in it doin high 12s-low 13s from the factory i wouldnt have a problem wit- wait...i wouldnt lose to that come englishtown's opening day :-X

[TheWraith]

a few ideas off the top of my head of stuff i'd be genuinely interested in:

1)something along the lines of the holden caprice, a 4 door full size with the lsX series engine, except available 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto (it's definitely time to retire the 700r4/4l60/4l60e already), rwd with optional awd, and hell maybe even a station wagon variant. The sedan should have fold down rear seats regardless for transporting big ****.

2)a real! truck/suv, **** all this cushy ****. Take a tahoe and gut the interior. Two front buckets, a removable center console, and a removable back bench. all the interior parts should be waterproof, and no carpet, just rubber/plastic - along the lines of the honda element. comes with 2 or 4 doors, rwd or awd, a bunch of different engines, including a big cube small block or big block torque monster and an available manual trans. Take all the police tahoe suspension parts so it handles well. throw in a removable roof section, going back to the K-blazer days. And it should be dirt assed cheap. That's what a truck should be, none of this soccer mom *********.

I want a truck that's cheap enough to be a second vehicle, but it should be able to tow, occasionally haul big ****, get me around in crappy winter weather and it washes out with a hose. i want something that is going to run forever too because it's too simple to break. no AWD, 4wd, with a transfer case that you shift with a level, a manual transmission,simple controls, no power options, etc.

3)something that's alternative fuel and gets ridiculous gas mileage, but it's actually cool. Maybe a little retro deal like a pt cruiser, but give it a harley davidson v-twin powering two electric motors for something like 250-300 hp, but 40+ mpg city and highway. Something with the sound of muscle, decent power, and the looks of muscle, but it's good on gas. I don't see how something like that wouldn't sell ridiculously. Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

[Savage_Messiah]

Originally Posted by TalkingGoat

Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

Prius drivers, civic drivers, civic hybrid drivers, etc...

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by TalkingGoat

a few ideas off the top of my head of stuff i'd be genuinely interested in:

1)something along the lines of the holden caprice, a 4 door full size with the lsX series engine, except available 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto (it's definitely time to retire the 700r4/4l60/4l60e already), rwd with optional awd, and hell maybe even a station wagon variant. Â*The sedan should have fold down rear seats regardless for transporting big ****.

2)a real! truck/suv, **** all this cushy ****. Â* Take a tahoe and gut the interior. Â*Two front buckets, a removable center console, and a removable back bench. Â*all the interior parts should be waterproof, and no carpet, just rubber/plastic - along the lines of the honda element. Â* comes with 2 or 4 doors, rwd or awd, a bunch of different engines, including a big cube small block or big block torque monster and an available manual trans. Â*Take all the police tahoe suspension parts so it handles well. Â*throw in a removable roof section, going back to the K-blazer days. Â*And it should be dirt assed cheap. Â*That's what a truck should be, none of this soccer mom *********. Â*

I want a truck that's cheap enough to be a second vehicle, but it should be able to tow, occasionally haul big ****, get me around in crappy winter weather and it washes out with a hose. Â*i want something that is going to run forever too because it's too simple to break. Â*no AWD, 4wd, with a transfer case that you shift with a level, a manual transmission,simple controls, no power options, etc.

3)something that's alternative fuel and gets ridiculous gas mileage, but it's actually cool. Â*Maybe a little retro deal like a pt cruiser, but give it a harley davidson v-twin powering two electric motors for something like 250-300 hp, but 40+ mpg city and highway. Â*Something with the sound of muscle, decent power, and the looks of muscle, but it's good on gas. Â*I don't see how something like that wouldn't sell ridiculously. Â*Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

Hrm....
#1 is coming true. That I can promise. Only one thing is different, it will have a 6spd manual or automatic. GM is skipping over the 5spds and going right to 6.
#2- not gunna happen any time soon. The bar for trucks have been raised by Ford's interior, and now no matter if you use it to haul two tons of sand, or 4 hot chicks...all the interiors will improve
#3- Will happen as well. The HHR, GM's PT Cruser, will get a 2.4 ecotec motor, and in the future will get a hyrbid assist motor.

Good Thinking!

As for trying not to think about Camaros and Firebirds...well, try expanding your mind and thing about other cool cars that you would like GM to make.

And the S10 has haulted production. Colorado now takes its place, and it also has an Xtreme body kit.

[TheWraith]

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

Prius drivers, civic drivers, civic hybrid drivers, etc...

correction: what car enthusiast wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

and Al, I've read some of the stuff out there and I know that a lot of this stuff is already on the horizon. It's all about the execution. GM has been very hit or miss with the styling of all new design vehicles in the last several years. Usually if they go for brand new ground it's a miss in my opinion. If it's something that looks familiar, it's generally better.

And as far as drivetrains are concerned, GM needs to play catch up bad as well. There should have been a fwd manual that could handle the horsepower years ago. The 4L60, 4L80, and 4T80 are all dinosaurs past their time and they should be put to rest. The 4T65 is a piece of ****, flat out. The 2.8/3.4 v6 engine family dating back to the mid 80's should be scrapped. The vortec 4.3 v6 should be scrapped. Most of the primary GM engine offerings such as the vortec v8's (ls1, etc), northstars, and the series III 3800's are aging and while they are great, something bigger and better should have come along by now to trump them. There needs to be a solid rwd irs platform set up for awd out there now since the other companies are already starting to get there.

Not that there aren't things in the works, they just aren't being timed well enough or pushed into production. launching the 04 grand prix with the 3800's was a mistake, especially since they had to bitch out on the horsepower rating on the gtp because of the 4t65e, exactly like they had to 7 years before. Not to mention still no manual option. You think 7 years would have solved those problems. The G6 sounds like it's going to be an answer to those problems, but that's just going to take people out of the grand prixs, which are a huge seller. The bonneville GXP, great looking car, but the northstar/4t80 has been done 200 times already. Doing the equinox and the upcoming pontiac torrent with the 3.4 liter v6 that dates back to the mid 80's 2.8 pos is a joke too.

[curt86iroc]

Originally Posted by TalkingGoat

correction: what car enthusiast wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****? Â*

and Al, I've read some of the stuff out there and I know that a lot of this stuff is already on the horizon. Â*It's all about the execution. Â*GM has been very hit or miss with the styling of all new design vehicles in the last several years. Â* Usually if they go for brand new ground it's a miss in my opinion. Â*If it's something that looks familiar, it's generally better.

And as far as drivetrains are concerned, GM needs to play catch up bad as well. Â* There should have been a fwd manual that could handle the horsepower years ago. The 4L60, 4L80, and 4T80 are all dinosaurs past their time and they should be put to rest. Â*The 4T65 is a piece of ****, flat out. Â*The 2.8/3.4 v6 engine family dating back to the mid 80's should be scrapped. Â*The vortec 4.3 v6 should be scrapped. Â* Most of the primary GM engine offerings such as the vortec v8's (ls1, etc), northstars, and the series III 3800's are aging and while they are great, something bigger and better should have come along by now to trump them. Â* There needs to be a solid rwd irs platform set up for awd out there now since the other companies are already starting to get there.

Not that there aren't things in the works, they just aren't being timed well enough or pushed into production. Â*launching the 04 grand prix with the 3800's was a mistake, especially since they had to bitch out on the horsepower rating on the gtp because of the 4t65e, exactly like they had to 7 years before. Â* Not to mention still no manual option. You think 7 years would have solved those problems. Â*The G6 sounds like it's going to be an answer to those problems, but that's just going to take people out of the grand prixs, which are a huge seller. Â*The bonneville GXP, great looking car, but the northstar/4t80 has been done 200 times already. Â* Â*Doing the equinox and the upcoming pontiac torrent with the 3.4 liter v6 that dates back to the mid 80's 2.8 pos is a joke too.

the 4.3 is one of the best engines chevy ever built.

[BigAls87Z28]

Agreed. While I will disagree with you on the OHV V8's. GM still gets praise for there very powerful, compact and fuel efficent V8's.
I dont really know why the 3.4 is used still only that the 3.4 is made in China, and its BEYOND cheap to make. IMO, the new 3.5 should have been used in all new cars.
As for teh 4spd, I wouldnt call them junk. GM's 4spd, while not having the extra gears, still are some of the finest and smoothest 4spds out there. Drive another asian 4spd auto, and then drive a GM's 4spd auto and its totaly different world. Even look at the Malibu Maxx vs the new Toyota Camry. The Camry has a little bit more power, but it needs premium gas, and with a 5spd, it STILL cant match the Malibu's gas milage. I can just imagine what GM's 6spds will do.
GM will bring out 10 new 6spd autos within the next few years.
I think that the G6 will amaze people when they go into Pontiac dealers looking for the usual plastic cladded Grand Ams, and they see this very European sport sedan.
I do wish that GM would use more of the new DOHC V6's. The 2.8 and 3.6 from Caddy should be seen more in GM's lineup.
And Zeta is that RWD/AWD chassis that you are looking for.

[TheWraith]

Originally Posted by curt86iroc

Â*the 4.3 is one of the best engines chevy ever built.

i don't disagree that it's not a good engine, but it's way past it's time. for the displacement it doesn't make the power level it should, and for the power level it has it doesn't make the gas mileage it should.

also, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the OHV V8 either. But as much as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is true, I think another key to selling more cars for GM is variety. If I'm driving a 5 year old *insert most any gm car name here*, what's my incentive to move up to the new model year? More horsepower? better gas mileage? does the new model have a new trans offering? not generally happening since most vehicles are powered by the same drivetrain exactly 5 years later. Styling alone does not sell someone a new car, especially considering the ridiculous gas prices.

[SpeakersGoBoom]

Originally Posted by TalkingGoat

2)a real! truck/suv, **** all this cushy ****. Â* Take a tahoe and gut the interior. Â*Two front buckets, a removable center console, and a removable back bench. Â*all the interior parts should be waterproof, and no carpet, just rubber/plastic - along the lines of the honda element. Â* comes with 2 or 4 doors, rwd or awd, a bunch of different engines, including a big cube small block or big block torque monster and an available manual trans. Â*Take all the police tahoe suspension parts so it handles well. Â*throw in a removable roof section, going back to the K-blazer days. Â*And it should be dirt assed cheap. Â*That's what a truck should be, none of this soccer mom *********. Â*

Todays SUV = Yesterdays Minivan
how many people today buy an SUV and never use it for anything more than point A to B driving? my neibor owns two SUVs and neither of them have seen anything but a paved road. Its the "cool kid's" minivan, only with worse gas milage.

Like I said before, Id like to see the return of the 2 seater midengine. It was a pretty cool concept. Why did they discontinue the Fiero?

[Trans Am Chick]

*sort of random

my step dad. hes colombian. in his family your either REALLY tall or REALLY short. he turned out the tallest of the short people @ 5'2" i dont see a problem with him being short.. but he insists on driving a frickin nissan titan.... that this is huge. at 6' I have trouble driving that truck.

[Fasterthanyou]

Originally Posted by Trans Am Chick

*sort of random

my step dad. hes colombian. in his family your either REALLY tall or REALLY short. he turned out the tallest of the short people @ 5'2" i dont see a problem with him being short.. but he insists on driving a frickin nissan titan.... that this is huge. at 6' I have trouble driving that truck.

That's why more pickups are driven by women now then men. They feel "safe" in a big vehicle. Being high up there is a sence of security that isn't there with a slow low car.
You're step dad probably has the first time in his life where he feels like king of the road. I'm tall, 6'4" and I drive a camaro! My dad (6'3") had 3 fiats, a subaru wagon, and a vw golf before his back got bad, now he's had 2 suburbans since 1990. He also has a new family (divorced) and so with 2 children his wife wants him to keep the suburban even though it gets 12mpg .
Women are the driving force behind vehicle purchases since the 90's, that's why we have so many SUV's. If it were guys we'd have sports cars and lifted jeeps, nothing imbetween. In other words, women are to blaim for the gas guzzling .
Guys are dangerous, we don't care so much about our safety. Look at most of the extream sports and you'll see what I mean. Not saying there aren't exceptions but when it comes to putting our self in harms way it's just another thrill.... like testing our cars top speed on every road trip or drag racing or tail gating a car that's only going 5 over.... it's just something guys do, weird yes, but nothing stranger than the majority of women driving around by themselves in huge trucks. In other words, if you want to pick-up a chick for life buy an SUV .

[89 Trans Am WS6]

Talking about quick 4 bangers..and more so..exotics..GM does make a few exotic looking cars..

For example the Vauxhall VXR220..turbo 4 banger that does 0-60 in something like 4 seconds and a top speed of like 160 mph..

thats a neat car.

Also if i remember correctly there is a opel model that is preety quick too..

GM makes some exotic looking ones, jsut not in the states

[enRo]

They also need to introduce a Pontiac P/U ... GM needs a pickup to compete with the $48,000 Dodge SRT10 with a Viper V10 motor that is supposidly very quick...

[BigAls87Z28]

Pontiac will never make a pick up. GMC is Pontiacs truck arm anyway. And GM already has stuff for that. The new SSR with 6spd runs the same time as the L and SRT10, all done with 110hp less then the SRT10. Im sure the SSR could also top the SRT10's top speed because the SRT10 has the aerodynamics of a barn.

GM WILL make a V10 for its trucks and SUV's, and there will also be the V12 Northstar that we saw in the Cien a few years back. Chances are the V12 will also be used in Caddy's flagship 7/S/A8 series sedan.

[Fasterthanyou]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Pontiac will never make a pick up. GMC is Pontiacs truck arm anyway. And GM already has stuff for that. The new SSR with 6spd runs the same time as the L and SRT10, all done with 110hp less then the SRT10. Im sure the SSR could also top the SRT10's top speed because the SRT10 has the aerodynamics of a barn.

GM WILL make a V10 for its trucks and SUV's, and there will also be the V12 Northstar that we saw in the Cien a few years back. Chances are the V12 will also be used in Caddy's flagship 7/S/A8 series sedan.

I have a friend that's been working for Cadilac for a while now. He isn't in the prototype devision but he's an engineer with friends. When we talked about that v12 engine he told me it was nothing more than 2 LS1 blocks welded together. The heads were legit castings and so was the crank. Pretty cool engine but damn was it heavy (long steel crank). I think it's pointless to have a v12 in any car, maybe a truck, or a Cat, but not a car. v8 is just right and if they would stop making tons of blocks they could focus on stuff like things that bolt onto the blocks. Kind of a modular design that Ford went too, only with more cubes . Turbo, 32v heads, intakes, superchargers, etc.

[BigAls87Z28]

Actualy...2 LS1 blocks welded together would get you 16 cyls...but whatever math you learned, stick to it...8)

Actualy, I belive what you are talking about is the Caddy V16 that was seen in the concept car of the same name. It wasnt and LS1, but based off the Gen IV small block chevy. And it wasnt 2 LS2's welded together, but just 16 cyls verson of teh Gen IV small block. It was a real working engine, and Caddy wanted it to be a real working car, not just a show car. Engine put out 1000hp with 1000tq.

The V12 is a DOHC engine that is actualy very small for a 12 cyl. Now the new special vehicle engine plant for GM will make the LS7 and the V12 by hand. The V16 might not make it, but the V12 is set for production right now.

[Fasterthanyou]

Yeah, brain fart. v16, lol
It would have to be the gen IV blocks if it has vvt wouldn't it, lol. I'll have to tell him that. I guess he was just trying to be quick about it's explination and slipped.
What is the displacement on that v12?
david.caldwell@gm.com , he's got the inside info if you ever need to talk to somebody that's in the know. He's in his 20's and a pretty crazy guy, I've got stories about him on the FSAE team that'll make him blush if he gives you a hard time .

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, the V16 had DoD that shut down from 16 to 8 to 4cyls, dont know about VVT? Possible as GM has shown a 4.3 V8 that used VVt, but used 2 cams inside the block.

The XV12 is a fine work of art. It uses DOHC, VVT, Displacement on Demand, and Direct Fuel injection. It made 750hp without the use of turbos or anything. It is said to make 500hp when it makes its debut in Caddys. Engine displacement is 7.5 liters. Size is just as big as teh 8.1 V8 OHV, and as wide as the Northstar V8.

Ill have to send your friend and email, and see what I can get out of him! 8)
Thanks.

[LS1LT1]

Originally Posted by SpeakersGoBoom

does GM currently make any cars like that? completely impractical, rediculously expensive cars that get a fraction of a mile to the gallon, but are able to be considered "supercars"? that can compete with cars like ferrari, lambo, etc?

No, but they do make one (or 'will be' making one) that does ALL of the above except isn't completely impractical nor overly expensive and doesn't get bad fuel mileage...it's called the Corvette Z06.