2012 Camaro won't be a Z28

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Actually...rumors are that the LT1 RPO code will return...

Damnit.

[NastyEllEssWon]

=BigAls87Z28;750318

Your GF is not the target buyer. Your gf wouldnt know the difference between an S class from a 7 series from a Ferrari.

why wouldnt she be a target demographic. isn't gm trying to sell this thing off heritage??

also she does know the differences about cars and she was rowing the gears way before you were a fetus fanboy.

[BigAls87Z28]

Congrats to her. Still not the target buyer for this car.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Congrats to her. Still not the target buyer for this car.

and explain yourself why not.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

and explain yourself why not.

Doesn't clear 150k a year, doesn't matter.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Its not that. Trying to fight history is impossible. There is a time to just not bother. Its not a matter of agreeing with me, because for the most part I understand what they are saying.
Its that some people cannot be pleased. What some people want is just a 69 Camaro, reproduced, with a big block, a M22 4spd manual, 12 bolt rear, dog dish hub caps, and 1320 ft of open road.

Cars are more than just an engine. If this engine is not fancy enough for you because its not exclusive to Camaro and does not offer any sort of gee-wiz wow feature, then there is no pleasing you.

Eh, it's really not quite like that. Feel free to laugh openly, but I'm not one of the guys who feels that civilization was doomed the day they cut the compression ratio of the LS-6. Thing is, I deal with misbranding, bad positioning, and the like all the time in the MR industry. Right now it appears to me that the Z28 nameplate has much better recall: ask a joe off the street what a ZL1 is and they probably won't know, but they will know a Z28. GM has a lot of good vibes from the past in their naming, they just have to leverage it correctly.

From a positioning standpoint, it seems like the new ZL1 is in a bit of a tough spot- it's got a lot of competition from three fronts. First, internal stuff like the ZR-1 and the V. Yeah, pricing is different but to a lot of people that can afford it it's not that big a jump. Second, external stuff from other brands. Challenger, Shelby, etc. Third, places like SLP who are already offering those types of power levels, and people homebuilding stuff. So if they want this to be a hit, I think they need something that sets it apart from the rest of the pack, and (in my opinion) the place to do that is under the hood, where you can play on the old school vibe of the RPO. It doesn't matter if you are selling cars or cheeseburgers. Something's got to be there to make people want to buy your product over someone else's.

If you are done that's cool and I'll STFU about it. I am being honest when I am saying I am just trying to understand what they are trying to accomplish, because it looks like they took their kickass engine, dropped it in the Camaro, slapped a vintage emblem on it, and let 'er rip without thinking about much else. Naming aside I am very impressed with it.

[NJ346]

My belief on why the Z28 nameplate wasn't used because they are waiting until the camaro switches platforms to the alpha(I believe that's the new chassis name) and becomes smaller. From what I understand, that's only like 3 years off, and the Z28 would launch as a smaller,lighter,agile car that everyone associates with the heritage that the Z28 nameplate stands for. If this is in fact the plan by GM, it's some great marketing because the camaro will continue to get a refresh and stay "new" in consumers eyes.(Introduced in 09, top of the line car in 12, whole line refresh in ~14, and the long awaited Z28 a year after)

[DaSkinnyGuy]

wonder if any new color options?

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Eh, it's really not quite like that. Feel free to laugh openly, but I'm not one of the guys who feels that civilization was doomed the day they cut the compression ratio of the LS-6. Thing is, I deal with misbranding, bad positioning, and the like all the time in the MR industry. Right now it appears to me that the Z28 nameplate has much better recall: ask a joe off the street what a ZL1 is and they probably won't know, but they will know a Z28. GM has a lot of good vibes from the past in their naming, they just have to leverage it correctly.

Z28 has bigger impact, no doubt. Its that VERY reason I didnt want this car to be called Z28. People complain about GM just slapping badges on anything just for the hell of it. This here shows that they took history and enthusiasts into account, since they will be the ones that spread the word of mouth on this car. This car is not for the average joe, or for Nasty's girlfriend.

From a positioning standpoint, it seems like the new ZL1 is in a bit of a tough spot- it's got a lot of competition from three fronts. First, internal stuff like the ZR-1 and the V. Yeah, pricing is different but to a lot of people that can afford it it's not that big a jump. Second, external stuff from other brands. Challenger, Shelby, etc. Third, places like SLP who are already offering those types of power levels, and people homebuilding stuff. So if they want this to be a hit, I think they need something that sets it apart from the rest of the pack, and (in my opinion) the place to do that is under the hood, where you can play on the old school vibe of the RPO. It doesn't matter if you are selling cars or cheeseburgers. Something's got to be there to make people want to buy your product over someone else's.

So because of competition, they should not do this? That is ANOTHER thing that people bash GM on. They dont go far enough, they dont do certain things when others are doing it. When Ford was pumping out Mustangs from 03 to 09, GM got bashed for NOT making a Camaro.
So because some guy can bolt on a supercharger in his garage means that GM should avoid making this car? That is the worst logic in the history of the automotive world. If you think this, then GM should bail out of the mid-sized car arena and let Accord and Camry do its thing.
A ZL1, a Z06, and a CTS-V owner are 3 different people

If you are done that's cool and I'll STFU about it. I am being honest when I am saying I am just trying to understand what they are trying to accomplish, because it looks like they took their kickass engine, dropped it in the Camaro, slapped a vintage emblem on it, and let 'er rip without thinking about much else. Naming aside I am very impressed with it.

WHA!! You do not understand this car at all. They didnt just drop an engine in a car and hoped for the best.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

why wouldnt she be a target demographic. isn't gm trying to sell this thing off heritage??

also she does know the differences about cars and she was rowing the gears way before you were a fetus fanboy.

so what does your girlfriend who seems to be BaddestBill's age drive now? That will speak volumes about if she is the target market for a $60k+ Camaro.

Originally Posted by NJ346

My belief on why the Z28 nameplate wasn't used because they are waiting until the camaro switches platforms to the alpha(I believe that's the new chassis name) and becomes smaller. From what I understand, that's only like 3 years off, and the Z28 would launch as a smaller,lighter,agile car that everyone associates with the heritage that the Z28 nameplate stands for. If this is in fact the plan by GM, it's some great marketing because the camaro will continue to get a refresh and stay "new" in consumers eyes.(Introduced in 09, top of the line car in 12, whole line refresh in ~14, and the long awaited Z28 a year after)

sounds reasonable to me.

[ws6 jim]

Originally Posted by DaSkinnyGuy

wonder if any new color options?

They said all colors would be available and I'm guessing thats including the new Carbon Black(metallic).

To the main topic I'm glad they threw their parts bin at the platform. It seems in comparison to the GT500 and SRT8 this car is way ahead of the curve. It seems like they did their homework and want that driveability and track readiness and that comes at a weight cost. I actually like my boat of a 5th gen because of its smoothness and effortlessness-I can only imagine the magnetic shocks and 125hp increase. I want to know pricing because it seems like there is going to be a big markup over the current 2ss. GM seems to have their act together in the matter that trans is upgraded over standard tr6060, rear is upgraded, and they have all the extra trim to give you a more complete package then an engine upgrade. The name doesn't bother me, but it doesn't scream out to you either. I guess we'll just have to continue complaining about who's not going to be the audience and why LT1s will one day rule the world until its released.

[qwikz28]

Interestingly, I just got back from class, and my buddy that sits next to me with a Nissan Z car just started spewing out history of the ZL1. He saw the nomenclature, and looked it up, and was shocked.

I'd love a Z28 for obvious reasons, but I see why they did what they did.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

so what does your girlfriend who seems to be BaddestBill's age drive now? That will speak volumes about if she is the target market for a $60k+ Camaro.

lol right now we have the ion because the price was right and the mileage is great. but we/me are looking at picking up a fun car to jam around in the nice weather. i usually like to pay for my cars in cash to avoid payments, but she's been taking a look at the big 3 right now (stang, challenger and camaro) and keeping the girl happy while having a fun toy you both enjoy is always a plus.

as for 60k+ camaro, you really think it would be that high??? i was thinking more like high 40s low 50s to compete with the gt500. it would suck if gm outprices this car.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

as for 60k+ camaro, you really think it would be that high??? i was thinking more like high 40s low 50s to compete with the gt500. it would suck if gm outprices this car.

A loaded GT500 is almost $60K I believe.

[sweetbmxrider]

I think this car is going to sell great and that's the only thing that matters. All that technology from the other platforms being used will really make an outstanding car. That magnetic suspension is badass and the motor will keep you pinned to the backrest. Its going to be a great car.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Z28 has bigger impact, no doubt. Its that VERY reason I didnt want this car to be called Z28. People complain about GM just slapping badges on anything just for the hell of it. This here shows that they took history and enthusiasts into account, since they will be the ones that spread the word of mouth on this car. This car is not for the average joe, or for Nasty's girlfriend. No argument here.


So because of competition, they should not do this? That is ANOTHER thing that people bash GM on. They dont go far enough, they dont do certain things when others are doing it. When Ford was pumping out Mustangs from 03 to 09, GM got bashed for NOT making a Camaro.
So because some guy can bolt on a supercharger in his garage means that GM should avoid making this car? That is the worst logic in the history of the automotive world. If you think this, then GM should bail out of the mid-sized car arena and let Accord and Camry do its thing.
A ZL1, a Z06, and a CTS-V owner are 3 different people

Not what I'm saying at all. Not even close. I'm saying if they position it right given the other options in the market right now it can do very well. If they don't, it will sell very poorly.


WHA!! You do not understand this car at all. They didnt just drop an engine in a car and hoped for the best. Wow, give me a little credit. I'm know it's not THAT simple due to other features and options that were added to make the car what it is. My point is that they built a bad ass car. Do they know what they are going to do with it, or how they can sell it effectively? I hope so, because their track record with stuff like that is hit or miss. The exposure for the Camaro itself is very well done, but this is a different deal. The aforementiond other options for consumers have been out there for a while and GM will have to take sales away from them.

Please see in red. Thanks.

[DaSkinnyGuy]

This car is going to be a blast with a upgraded cam, pulley,longtubes & tune. Of course swapping from the 1.9L supercharger to the 2.3L will net even more gain.

[1QWIKBIRD]

If GM really wants to do this right, lets go whole hog, all in and do it 100%. Here's the deal if you want to truly capitalize on the whole ZL-1 theme.

Take the LS7 motor out of the Vette (respect the 427 heritage) and turn up the wick, just a bit, maybe go from 505 to 550. Hand built or not, we need 427 cubic inches. Anything less is insulting. The orginal ZL1 was not sublte, neither should this version. Let people know you are arriving and you brought your A-game.

How satisfying would it be to kick Supercharged DOHC Ford mustang tail with a "boring" old OHV 2v per cylinder cam in block NA mill? And make sure the oiling system is up to the task, and doesn't starve the motor for oil and blow after being on track for 20 minutes, please.

Do a full carbon hood (give me that much, please).

Give the car headers and full performance exhaust (sorry aftermarket). A side exit style exhaust would be really nice touch if possible.

Keep all the suspension goodies and the P-Diddy huge by large by ugly wheels if you must. Get the car to sit lower or at least give the illusion with some side skirts (nicely done).

Give the car a seat upgrade (keep the heaters, the power lumbar etc.) Include some houndstooth or ZL1 stitching as appropriate.

Make only 69 (or maybe 112) of them in the first year and sell them for 69K. Then see where that gets you. That would honoring the heritage of the original ZL1.

[HeadlessNorseman]

now it will run 13.8 at 145.