No 420 threads?

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Frosty

But what if there was a massive earthquake then a hurricane washed it all away? THEN what Mr. Know It All????

maybe everyone was looting and rioting after katrina because they wanted to smoke a joint to calm themselves down but couldnt because their stashes were wet

[LTb1ow]

"..there is always soma, delicious soma, half a gramme for a half-holiday, a gramme for a week-end, two grammes for a trip to the gorgeous East, three for a dark eternity on the moon..."

Hurray for govt sponsored drug programs.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

but thats the point. drug users and marijuana users arent one and the same. you cant compare the 35 year old father of two, looking to unwind after a stressful week by smoking a small doobie with the 19 year old crank whore giving out loosies on the corner for her next fix.

it is possible to be a marijuana user and be a productive responsible member of society. its pretty hard to do so when youre popping in the bathroom every 5 minutes to blow a few lines, pop a xanax to slow the heart pounding and then do it all over again.


hell you want to see something sad...my own mother is addicted percocets and those are terribly legal. another reason why the govt doesnt want marijuana legalize. she would be able to substitute the govt provided pain killer for a more safe, natural and non addictive one. effectively breaking her addiction and taking money out of big pharmas pocket.

I am sorry but the last thing I will do is come home from a day of work to my family and light up a Joint in front of my 4 yr old daughter to unwind!! To me that is not right.

How is MJ safe?? Are cigarettes safe?? If you were to regulate the potentcy of it, like it was talked about before, then how would it be all natural?

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Thanks for playing. You can't even keep a debate straight in your own head. I'm done with this one lol

Sorry man.. I was smoking a blunt and was a little dissoriented.. Didnt realize what I was typing..

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Jeff, good for you.

Matt: It's funny, Amsterdam has less drug related crime, has less cases of overdoses and has less of a drug problem than here, the morally righteous in your face high horse society.

You read that in one of those "official brochures for tourists"? Have you actually been there, or spoke to someone who has a first hand experience? I'm gonna go with a "no".

There are a crap load of ODs and junkies sitting on the corner of the street with a needle in their arm. What a great sights to see! I'm not sure if you have kids but imagine you are taking a stroll in the park with one of them and there's a dude ODing right in front of you, ahhh nice - right Considering the fact that a lot of drug offenses are just a slap on the wrist over there, cops don't even bother, so you can drop the "well you can shoot up heroine legally in the park and in US everything will be 100% legal" routine.

Funny thing about statistics, you can easily manipulate them, doh. If you look at Penn State's brochure for crimes committed (robbery, sexual assault, etc) they will all read "0" (at least they have in the past). Let's just say it isn't the case..

[Frosty]

Two different documentaries and 3 different people that HAVE been there, including my mother and stepfather. Next. Is that good enough? Probably not.

Also, what does shooting up heroin in a US park have to do with anything? Their attitude about drugs over there is completely different over there. They actually HELP people get off of the hardcore **** instead of just throwing them in jail and throwing away the key like we do here. But we're getting off topic, shooting up heroin in a US park is completely irrelevant.

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Two different documentaries and 3 different people that HAVE been there, including my mother and stepfather. Next. Is that good enough? Probably not.

Also, what does shooting up heroin in a US park have to do with anything? Their attitude about drugs over there is completely different over there. They actually HELP people get off of the hardcore **** instead of just throwing them in jail and throwing away the key like we do here.

Alright, I guess there is no drug problem in Amsterdam

Well if you are cool with taking a stroll in the park surrounded by bunch of junkies then I guess not a damn thing. You can't help a junkie unless they want help, and if they want help they can get it here. There are plenty of hand out available. Old Russia had the best policy of dealing with druggies.

[Frosty]

I never said there wasn't, where did I ever say that?

I said that it's ironic they have LESS of a drug problem with more drugs being legal. Follow along

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I never said there wasn't, where did I ever say that?

I said that it's ironic they have LESS of a drug problem with more drugs being legal. Follow along

They do not have less of a problem, maybe by "recorded" statistics wise but the problem is there and it's pretty big. Tell your parents to get off the sight seeing tours.

And last time I checked even if the drugs are legal, you still gotta pay for them. If you have a junkie that can't hold down a job I'm sure he will just quit and never use again.. Or maybe I should give him a pat on the back and feel sorry for him. Right.

[BigAls87Z28]

They aren't pot junkies...so really, what changes from today? Go to Baltimore much? That place is wall to wall homeless junkies running around.
So how does making pot legal have to do with junkies lying around parks, which they already do in most major cities already?

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

They aren't pot junkies...so really, what changes from today? Go to Baltimore much? That place is wall to wall homeless junkies running around.
So how does making pot legal have to do with junkies lying around parks, which they already do in most major cities already?

Re-read the post I quoted then get back to me.

Also look up swiss experiment with laxing the laws around drugs - "Platzspitz", let me know how that went and what was the result. Did crime go up in surrounding areas? Did drug traffic/use increase or decrease?

Kthx.

P.S. the whole "our crime rate is higher than theirs" argument is pointless. You can substitute anything in there and it will still be true. Ex: Amsterdam has a higher air quality then NYC, because of that their crime is lower.. Good luck proving that statement wrong. There is no true indicator of WHY their crime rate is lower.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Re-read the post I quoted then get back to me.

Also look up swiss experiment with laxing the laws around drugs - "Platzspitz", let me know how that went and what was the result. Did crime go up in surrounding areas? Did drug traffic/use increase or decrease?

Kthx.

P.S. the whole "our crime rate is higher than theirs" argument is pointless. You can substitute anything in there and it will still be true. Ex: Amsterdam has a higher air quality then NYC, because of that their crime is lower.. Good luck proving that statement wrong. There is no true indicator of WHY their crime rate is lower.

Im not making any argument about crime rates or anything. You said that they have a lot of junkies in the streets, needles in arm because or lax drug laws, correct?
Do you not see that here in the US? Saying that if we loosen up making pot legal means that there will be droves of people lying out in the street, needle in arm, in a pool of their own excrement makes no sense to me.

edit: ahh ok. Not pot, but drugs overall. Yeah, not a fan of letting all drugs off the hook.

[Tsar]

Fun tidbit I found.

Consequently, health officials estimate that Amsterdam has 7,000 addicts, 20% of whom are foreigners.58 These addicts are responsible for 80% of all property crime in the city, thus necessitating that Amsterdam maintain a police presence far greater than those of cities of comparable size in the United States.59

The Dutch have not raised one dollar in tax revenue from drug sales, and drug violators account for 50 percent of the Dutch prison population, a higher proportion than in the United States.60 The Netherlands is the most crime-prone nation in Europe and most drug addicts live on state welfare payments and by committing crimes.61

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Im not making any argument about crime rates or anything. You said that they have a lot of junkies in the streets, needles in arm because or lax drug laws, correct?
Do you not see that here in the US? Saying that if we loosen up making pot legal means that there will be droves of people lying out in the street, needle in arm, in a pool of their own excrement makes no sense to me.

edit: ahh ok. Not pot, but drugs overall. Yeah, not a fan of letting all drugs off the hook.

Ok, you edited before I responded. Yea, I was talking about drugs in general, as was Frosty's post.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Fun tidbit I found.

So...nothing would change.


btw, I was under the impression that pot is still illegal in the Amsterdam, just decriminalised.

Though technically illegal, the Netherlands decriminalised the consumption and possession of under 5g (0.18oz) of cannabis in 1976 under an official "tolerance" policy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8587576.stm

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

So...nothing would change.


btw, I was under the impression that pot is still illegal in the Amsterdam, just decriminalised.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8587576.stm

It's illegal, as far as I remember, but it's not enforced by the cops. What are you gonna take from a homeless junkie?

Speaking of crime rates, Sweden which has zero tolerance for drug crimes also has only 3% drug related crime recorded. Hey! Statistics are always true! Pretty sure that's lower than almighty Amsterdam. According to Frosty's argument we should then institute zero tolerance policies, no?

Stats are fun!

California decriminalized marijuana in 1976, and, within the first six months, arrests for driving under the influence of drugs rose 46 percent for adults and 71.4 percent for juveniles.[33]

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

I am sorry but the last thing I will do is come home from a day of work to my family and light up a Joint in front of my 4 yr old daughter to unwind!! To me that is not right.

How is MJ safe?? Are cigarettes safe?? If you were to regulate the potentcy of it, like it was talked about before, then how would it be all natural?

please point out where i said that fictional character was sitting down in front of their children getting high? on a side note...have you ever smoked a cigarette or drank a beer while your children were home (not in front)?

as for regarding the potency, not all marijuana is created equal. there is many parts to the equation.

Indica is a body high type sensation. Sativa is a head high type sensation. this is why most breeds and strains of marijuana come with a name. over the years these breeds and strains have been classified and typed as either Indica or Sativa. then what happens is through the process of cross pollination they can actually breed 50/50, 80/20...60/40, you get the hint. when you got to the medical marijuana dispensaries they list what the strain is, what type it is, and what/if it was hybrid with another strain.

not all marijuana is created equal, some has a higher thc content than others. it all depends on how and where it was grown, whether natural soil was used, the amount of nitrogen the plant was allowed to consume, when it was harvested, how long of a day/night cycle the plant was grown on and whether or not the buds of the plants were allowed to fertilized by the male pollen. this is the reason some people prefer soil with bat guana (high in nitrogen) and some people prefer to grow without soil using hydroponics and time released grow food.

Originally Posted by Tsar

Fun tidbit I found.

keyword. addicts. not possible with marijuana. www.tryagain.com/nope.avi

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

keyword. addicts. not possible with marijuana. www.tryagain.com/nope.avi

Is that your way of saying that a pothead will never commit a crime? Or use other drugs along with smoking a joint?

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Is that your way of saying that a pothead will never commit a crime? Or use other drugs along with smoking a joint?

not at all. but you cant just quote all drug user statistics as an argument against marijuana. if you want to do that then you have to lump in every prescription drug user, every pot smoker, every xtasy user, every crack/coke user, every heroin user, every caffiene abuser, every steroid user, every alcohol drinker and so on in the same group.

if you want to put it like that, id guess 90 percent of america does drugs.

[sweetbmxrider]

Isn't it switzerland that runs free clinics for herion addicts? That seemed to help clean up the streets and less oding too. Not quoting anything, just recalling.

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

not at all. but you cant just quote all drug user statistics as an argument against marijuana. if you want to do that then you have to lump in every prescription drug user, every pot smoker, every xtasy user, every crack/coke user, every heroin user, every caffiene abuser, every steroid user, every alcohol drinker and so on in the same group.

if you want to put it like that, id guess 90 percent of america does drugs.

I doubt Netherlands officials included caffeine abusers in their "addicts" statistics.. Come on now, stop grasping for straws. Also that comment was directed to Frosty due to his illusion that Amsterdam is all sunshine and puppies. Or maybe mom just lied.

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Isn't it switzerland that runs free clinics for herion addicts? That seemed to help clean up the streets and less oding too. Not quoting anything, just recalling.

Are you thinking of Great Britain and their miserable failure of prescribing heroin to people?

A. Great Britain

With the report of a government commission known as the Brain Committee of 1964, England instituted a policy whereby doctors could prescribe heroin so long as they followed certain treatment criteria.47 Previously in England, doctors could prescribe heroin much like any other opiate (such as morphine). This allowed a few unscrupulous doctors to sell ungodly amounts of heroin to members of the black market.48 Consequently, it was believed that if heroin were offered at medical clinics according to stringent rules and regulations, addicts would come to these clinics to seek treatment and eventually would overcome their habit.

As of 1983, however, England began to phase out these programs of clinically supplied heroin in favor of methadone treatment.49 Why? First, according to the reputable British physician journal Lancet, the number of addicts increased 100% between 1970 and 1980.50 A disproportionate number of these new addicts were between the ages of sixteen and seventeen.51 Second, only twenty percent of all of the addicts in England belonged to the clinical programs.52 At first blush, this fact seems strange - why would addicts choose not to participate in a program wherein they get free methadone? The answer probably lies in the fact that methadone does not produce the high that heroin does. Also, addicts probably did not care for the mandatory treatment and rehabilitation facets of the clinical programs. Whatever the reason, by 1985 England had 80,000 heroin addicts, the vast majority of whom wen not in treatment.53

A third reason why England began to abolish its clinical heroin program was the fact that not only were there few people, in them, but the programs themselves did not work. According to the British Medical Journal, more addicts left the program because of criminal convictions than because of treatment.54 Fourth, even with the clinical programs, heroin addicts had a death rate twenty-six times the average population. Finally, even when the programs were in operation, Scotland Yard had to increase its narcotics division 100% in order to cope with the increased crime rate.56

To summarize, the British experience with decriminalized heroin in the clinical context was a dismal failure. When experts from British Columbia were debating whether to create a similar program, they made the following conclusions that are so important as to deserve to be quoted at length:

While some success is claimed in terms of reducing the incidence of young users, the following findings have also been noted:

1) The British approach has failed to attract a majority of addicts;

2) Many registered addicts continue to turn to illicit sources of

drugs;

3) Many registered addicts do not decrease their dosage over time;

4) Many registered addicts continue to be involved in criminal activity;

5) Many registered addicts are chronically unemployed or do not earn enough to look after themselves;

6) The death rate of registered addicts is much higher than that of the general population and may be higher than that of North American addicts;

7) Since 1960, there has been a dramatic increase in the English addict population;

8) The black market for heroin continues to thrive;

9) Law enforcement appears to remain a necessary, costly and complex control measure.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Tsar

I doubt Netherlands officials included caffeine abusers in their "addicts" statistics.. Come on now, stop grasping for straws.

how come youre allowed to grab 5 straws but i cant grab a few more than you. if you wanna reach, by all means lets reach. if you look into statistics most dont include marijuana users in their lists of ''addicts''. either way, if you wanna make the gateway argument like you did before i could say the same thing about alcohol and tobacco. ive tried them before i tried marijuana...and theyre legal

[sweetbmxrider]

Nope, it was either switzerland or sweden.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

not at all. but you cant just quote all drug user statistics as an argument against marijuana. if you want to do that then you have to lump in every prescription drug user, every pot smoker, every xtasy user, every crack/coke user, every heroin user, every caffiene abuser, every steroid user, every alcohol drinker and so on in the same group.

if you want to put it like that, id guess 90 percent of america does drugs.

Out of those drugs u listed how many are legal?


I started out with drinking alcholol from my parents bar in the basement, then when that got boring we started smoking weed and when That got boring we started using other drugs.. I wont name the other drugs but it all started from using Pot.. The dealers we used sold pot and other drugs and they started selling us other drugs that were a lot more exicting then pot was.. Pot may not be addicting but it does open the door to other drug use. Then we started mixing pot with other drugs and pretty much smoking anything and it got real bad.. I quit school completely and just worked at Acme and used drugs for about 18 months.. Thank God for the Navy and a Drug waiver... Making it legal to me would not make anything different on my own experience. I would have gotten bored with it and moved up to illegal drugs..

I am not saying this happens to everyone.. Its just what happend to me and is why I am who I am now.. A lot of people will be happy with just smoking MJ but a lot of people will still want to use more..

I was stupid and was just trying what everyone else was. It wasnt my parents fault or anyone elses but myselfs..

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

please point out where i said that fictional character was sitting down in front of their children getting high? on a side note...have you ever smoked a cigarette or drank a beer while your children were home (not in front)?

not all marijuana is created equal, some has a higher thc content than others. it all depends on how and where it was grown, whether natural soil was used, the amount of nitrogen the plant was allowed to consume, when it was harvested, how long of a day/night cycle the plant was grown on and whether or not the buds of the plants were allowed to fertilized by the male pollen. this is the reason some people prefer soil with bat guana (high in nitrogen) and some people prefer to grow without soil using hydroponics and time released grow food.

I am going by me being a 30yr old with child and unwinding the work week would mean me coming home to my family and relaxing.. Smoked a cigarette around my kid you ask? No.. I quit smoking when we found out my wife was pregnant.. Drink?? Maybe.. I drink maybe 20 beers a year now.. Did all my drinking over seas while in the Navy.. Having 1 beer or 1 Glass of wine a day is not the same as having 1 joint or smoking 1 bowl of weed.. That Bud will probably get you F'ed up and the 1 beer that I have maybe once a week or so will do nothing..

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

I started out with drinking alcholol from my parents bar in the basement, then when that got boring we started smoking weed and when That got boring we started using other drugs.. I wont name the other drugs but it all started from using Pot..

really?