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Old 06-11-2010, 10:47 PM   #1
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Smile Broken Valvespring while Autox.....Fixed (fingers crossed)

About a month ago I broke a valvespring just as I crossed the finished line. As I let off the gas the car shuddered badly and then wouldn't idle hardly at all. I pull out of line and loaded it on the trailer. I did a quick inspection thinking plug wire or something stupid, but nothing obvious. So later that week I figure start with the easy stuff, plugs, wires etc. I also pulled the valve covers that when I found the exhaust valvespring on #7 was looking like this:





Luckily I didn't drop the valve and cause all hell to break loose. I thought the car had dual springs on it and figured that the inner spring saved me. Turns out it only had single springs on it. Shame on me for not knowing my own car better.

My initial reaction was to drop the motor and tear into it. But under the advice of some trusted friends (198esp1 and others) I decided to simply swap out the springs on the bad cylinder, then do a leak down test to see if there was any collateral damage like a bent valve, nicked valve seat, pushrod damage etc. Never having done a valve spring swap on a car, I was in new territory.

I picked up a PRC Gold springs Kit with new Ti retainers, bases, seals and locks (good reputation and affordable) NIB and then got lucky and scored a Crane Valve Spring Tool on LS1Tech which fit my needs nicely.

The tool


So tonight after work I dove in head first. First I brought #7 to TDC (just in case the air failed to hold the valve it wouldn't drop all the way to the bottom). Then removed the rockers (Comp Cams Pro Mag) and pushrods (Comp Cams) and inspected them for obvious wear. Everthing looked good. Pushrods rolled true on a plate of glass. So far so good.

Then I slid the base of the tool over the studs with some hardened washers and tightend it down.


Pressurized the cylinder with air, about 80 psi or so.

Then you slide the clamp bar over the center stud (which is attached to the base of the tool) being careful to keep it centered over the retainers. Lube the threads of the stud and slowly tighten down the bar, compressing the valve springs and releasing the locks.



Pluck the locks with pen magnet, loosen the bar and pull the old hardware. Install the new hardware, line up the bar, compress the springs and insert the locks. This was a little tricky, never having done this before I had to kinda feel my way through it. Compress the springs too far and the locks sit too deep and don't seat properly. Don't compress enough and you can't get them in. So a little trial and error to me to the finished product. Sorry for not taking pics of the all these steps, but I was paranoid of the valves dropping for some crazy reason.


Springs are installed on that one cylinder. So I decided to put it back together, lash the valves and do a quick test to see how it ran. If it still ran like pooh, indicating something more that just the spring got hurt then the motor would have to come out and I'd to the rest out of the car. But it fired right up and runs great. I think it runs even better that it did. The valvesprings must be tired, so this Saturday I'll do the rest of the cylinders one at a time.

I got lucky. My cam is small by today's standards and the old springs were Manely singles best I can tell from my pile of receipts. So no junk, but time took its toll. Lots of cycles from the drag strip, autox, track days etc. Learn from this example and change out the valvespring once they get some miles on them. Once I get this heap back together I'm gonna go back to Atco and see if the MPH pics up? Just changing that one cylinder feels like it made a difference, but it could be in my head?

Chris
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:16 AM   #2
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looks good, glad every thing is working out for you
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:14 AM   #3
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Hopefully its not in your head, and you do pick up something. Changing springs is a hell of a maintenance to gain nothing.

I swapped my springs when I put in my cam, but I had the luxury of doing them with the heads off. Also, my first time and I used the same crane tool you did. I had problems with the locks staying jammed inside the retainers even after I compressed the stock springs. I dont think I would have had the patience to do them on car...goodluck with the back end of the passenger side.

About how long did it take you to do the one head?
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkEvil View Post
Hopefully its not in your head, and you do pick up something. Changing springs is a hell of a maintenance to gain nothing.

I swapped my springs when I put in my cam, but I had the luxury of doing them with the heads off. Also, my first time and I used the same crane tool you did. I had problems with the locks staying jammed inside the retainers even after I compressed the stock springs. I dont think I would have had the patience to do them on car...goodluck with the back end of the passenger side.

About how long did it take you to do the one head?
Changing springs might be a lot maintenance, but a dropped valve is a whole lot more. I actually doubt most people keep their car (dedicated track cars excluded) long enough to wear the valve springs out, but definitley something to be aware of if you are running a bigger cam and or the car sees lots of extended rpm.

I only did the #7 cylinder. I'll do the rest today. The one cylinder took me a couple hours, but that was me screwing around setting up everything etc. I'll post up how long it takes once I get the hang of it. I whacked the top of the retainers with a mallet and socket before using the tool, just to help free up the keepers a little.
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Old 06-12-2010, 11:29 PM   #5
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Thumbs down Not so lucky afterall.................

Well turns out I'm not so lucky and the motor will have to be pulled. By pure chance the next cylinder I did was #3. It was the closest one to TDC so I had at it. Pulled the rockers and found this


and then after I I look closely at the rocker and saw this


So now I have to pull the motor and have a look at what's going on. I looked at the rest of the rockers and valve stem tips and they are perfect. No abnormalities at all. The offending rocker trunion and tip spins fine with no excessive travel/slop and doesn't feel like its grinding or anything. The pushrod is straight and true, the ends are not pitted or deformed in any way.

It appears as though the roller tip stopped spinning for whatever reason and started to just slide across the valve stem causing the wear, but that cause the top to stop spinning (if that's what did happen).

So now there are lots of choices to make and this car is wearing thin on my resolve. Everytime I turn around its doin this to me and I'm not feeling the love anymore.

Any input on the cause of the wear is appreciated. I'm trying to understand what is going on. Could it be a sign of weak springs? valve float? Any ideas?

Just for kicks here's a shot of the spring that failed on #7 and started this whole decent into ****sville.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:07 PM   #6
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The top of that valve looks more like it was hit with a hammer then grinded down by the roller. I think the top of the valve was damaged first during an install, then the rocker was installed on it anyway. The imperfections on the valve probably kept the roller from moving.

You dont need to pull the motor. Pull the heads, clean everything up, and replace the head gaskets. Get some good head bolts and thinner gaskets if you want to make it worth your time.

That really sucks, but look on the bright side, replacing the springs will be much easier with the heads off
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkEvil View Post
The top of that valve looks more like it was hit with a hammer then grinded down by the roller. I think the top of the valve was damaged first during an install, then the rocker was installed on it anyway. The imperfections on the valve probably kept the roller from moving.

You dont need to pull the motor. Pull the heads, clean everything up, and replace the head gaskets. Get some good head bolts and thinner gaskets if you want to make it worth your time.

That really sucks, but look on the bright side, replacing the springs will be much easier with the heads off
The block is studded, so getting the heads off will be difficult, unless I remove the studs too. I know the valves were in good shape when I put the rockers on 3-4 years ago. I had them disassembled, cleaned, check the valves and springs after a factory roller rocker spewed its guts all over the place. All came back cleaned and assembled ready to go. Even the springs were checked for pressure, but anything is possible. I doubt the valve was damaged at the time of assembly. I would think the carnage would be far worse years later with 10-12,000 on the motor since then.

If the springs had weakened and valve float set in, could that have caused it?

Either way the plan is get the heads looked to make sure there is no valve seat damage, which I don't believe there to be. Then I'll install the new springs/retainers/locks etc and I'm gonna throw a set of LS7 lifters and new trays in while its apart.

This car is sucking the life out of me in huge chunks.........
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:28 PM   #8
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Well the motor came out tonight. Pulled it out the bottom. So now I'll send the heads off to get freshened and see what other stuff I can do while its out. Pics to follow
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:29 PM   #9
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I dropped the heads off tonight and while talking to my engine guy, he noticed that the pitting (galling whatever you would call it) is only happening on the intake valves. All of the exhaust valves are perfect. I don't know the if the intake valves are stock or aftermarket, but they are getting swapped out for sure. The exhaust valves will get checked out, but at first glance they look fine. Should have the heads back sometime next week.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:09 PM   #10
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Well its worse than I thought.....follow up

Turns out the bore in #1 cylinder is hurt. Probably not related, but its scuffed just the same. I noticed it as I was wiping down everything and cleaning in preparation for bolting the heads back on. You can feel it with the tips of your finger, but you can't really catch a nail on anything.

The motor still made good power before all this, so I don't think its that bad yet to where its causing a loss of compression. Either way I can't put it back together like this, that would just be stupid. So its either rebuild time, or start completely over. Time to do some homework, come up with a budget and a plan.

Does anyone make a conversion kit to transform a 4th Firechicken into a G8 GT, I mean they are both Pontiac's right?
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