Which Special forces officer would win out of the bunch?

[redbanditZ28]

I know there are some armed forces members on this forum, so maybe they can shed some light on who they think would win in hand to hand combat. This may seem like a ignorant post, and that is because it is. I admit I know nothing about groups like the Navy Seals, the Marines, or the Green Berets, but I am interested to find out about how they stack up or campare to each other. I am never able to find out about what forms of martial arts and combat styles each utilizes.

So who would win in hand to hand combat? A Navy Seal, a Green Beret, an Army Ranger, a Marine out of the Special Operations Battalion, or Special Activities Division of the CIA?




Also, in a situation where any of the armed forces are in the same location, who has final say over what orders are carried out? Like say a high ranking Marine and a high ranking Army soldier are in the same location under enemy fire or what ever the conditions, do both armed forces just keep to themselves or what happens?

These are questions I've always wanted to know, so I appreciate any help in undertstanding them. I've been watching a lot of armed forces movies lately like Jarhead, Platoon, and other movies, so it got the old mind thinking about such things.

[sweetbmxrider]

a samurai would win. they are interesting questions and i would like to know the answers as well. but with hand to hand combat, it seems like pretty fair game. too many variables though

[GP99GT]

ninjas

[V]

well the past 2 week ive been doing training with Rangers, not to be a ranger, they are just our instructors for the class i'm in. However we do their type of morning PT and dam thats a killer, lol. Also on friday we lerned how to phyisically detain someone... basically if i can get a hold of 1-4 of your fingers, you'll be on the ground within 2 seconds... thats the basics. So with all the crazy stuff rangers, marines, seals, etc know, it'll be pretty equal in my opinion.

BUT... if you get any soldier who is Level 5 Combatives certified... that one could probably easliy take out any ranger, seal, or green beret in a second.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by redbanditZ28

So who would win in hand to hand combat? A Navy Seal, a Green Beret, an Army Ranger, a Marine out of the Special Operations Battalion, or Special Activities Division of the CIA?




Also, in a situation where any of the armed forces are in the same location, who has final say over what orders are carried out? Like say a high ranking Marine and a high ranking Army soldier are in the same location under enemy fire or what ever the conditions, do both armed forces just keep to themselves or what happens?

the first question is almost unanswerable

I would think it would be a pretty even match between a SEAL, Force Recon Marine and a Green Beret. Rangers are classified at special forces, but the army has more than one special forces designation (rangers, green berets, delta). I highly doubt your average ranger could take down a delta operator. I dont know anything about the training of CIA field operatives, though I'm pretty sure they are mostly former special forces guys.

if two, lets say captains (both O-3), from the army and marine corp were in the same area chances are they are getting different orders. while they might work together and sometimes do, an army officer cannot give orders to a marine and vice versa...at least thats my understanding of the situation. feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[V]

i didnt even read the second part of the question..

from what ive seen so far... when doing a mission, different branches rarely if ever co exist, so basically they would keep to themselves.

[redbanditZ28]

Thanks for the replies. I have been really wondering about these questions for a while.
I figured it would probably come down to the individual for the fight too.

How often would you guys say that the army and marines ever interact on any given mission? Just curious.

[12secondv6]

Nuff said.

[ar0ck]

[Knipps]

Originally Posted by GP99GT

ninjas

[Ian]

Originally Posted by redbanditZ28

Thanks for the replies. I have been really wondering about these questions for a while.
I figured it would probably come down to the individual for the fight too.

How often would you guys say that the army and marines ever interact on any given mission? Just curious.

not very often. the different objectives are carried out by different branches of the military.

on a side note, the navy guys probably have the most interaction with other branches. the marines are actually a sub division of the navy, they use the same terminology and the marine corp budget is part of the navy's budget.

[redbanditZ28]

All interesting facts you guys have told me.

What does a level 5 combat expert consist of? I mean how many years of training, and what does he or she have over everyone else in terms of training and combat?


Also, what is it about the Marines that makes them more trained or lethal than the Army?
I mean I always hear that Marines are supposed to be superior and that they have more intense training, but when it comes down to combat and fighting in the battlefield, what do they really have over the Army? I know many Marines get very testy when I talk about this, but I want to know if there is more to Marines than just training and boot camp that makes them superior to the Army. I am not trying to knock either side, I am just trying to understand.

Also, where did the "Semprify" come from?

I realize this is a car forum and all, but I don't really know of any armed forces forums on the internet and they would probably not take my questions seriously. But if nothing else, at least I am showing interest in our country's armed forces and what they do.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by redbanditZ28

All interesting facts you guys have told me.

What does a level 5 combat expert consist of? I mean how many years of training, and what does he or she have over everyone else in terms of training and combat?


Also, what is it about the Marines that makes them more trained or lethal than the Army?
I mean I always hear that Marines are supposed to be superior and that they have more intense training, but when it comes down to combat and fighting in the battlefield, what do they really have over the Army? I know many Marines get very testy when I talk about this, but I want to know if there is more to Marines than just training and boot camp that makes them superior to the Army. I am not trying to knock either side, I am just trying to understand.

Also, where did the "Semprify" come from?

I realize this is a car forum and all, but I don't really know of any armed forces forums on the internet and they would probably not take my questions seriously. But if nothing else, at least I am showing interest in our country's armed forces and what they do.

marine corps basic training is a little more intense than army boot camp. the marines learn a different style of martial arts (MCMAP: Marine Corps Martial Arts Program). Marines also qualify with their rifles out to 500 yards where the army only qualifies out to 300 yards. every marine is a rifleman.

Semper Fi is short for Semper Fidelis, which is latin for "always faithful"

I dont know much about the combat ratings, but I do know that everyone gets the bare minimum and after that you have to go to school for advancement.

[Untamed]

Originally Posted by Ian

marine corps basic training is a little more intense than army boot camp. the marines learn a different style of martial arts (MCMAP: Marine Corps Martial Arts Program). Marines also qualify with their rifles out to 500 yards where the army only qualifies out to 300 yards. every marine is a rifleman.

Semper Fi is short for Semper Fidelis, which is latin for "always faithful"

I dont know much about the combat ratings, but I do know that everyone gets the bare minimum and after that you have to go to school for advancement.

The requirements may have changed since I was in, however we had 2, 400 meter shots we had to take during BRQUAL (Battle Rifle Qualification), circa 1992. (EDIT: Army 12B - Combat Engineer, Ft Leonard Wood, Summer 1992)

What's the reason for the "better than" questions? Each branch, and each type of unit, has a specific mission for which they were formed. The level of skill of each unit is only as good as it's weakest member. So while the standard unarmed training for a unit may seem more intense than another, each soldier is encouraged to train on skills outside of the standard regimen of training.

For example - many soldiers I knew, who were in the infantry, went out and got jump qualified in a civilian school, because their unit was mechanized, not jump qualified. They wold never get their military jump wings, but they would get a civilian certificate for doing free-fall parachuting. The same could be said for unarmed combat - taking martial arts classes during your off hours is encouraged, so the individual skill of the soldier would be better than the same type of soldier only training with the military.

The Navy Seals spend a lot of time in training, heeding the call to duty to perform specific missions. Some of them are extended, but most go out, perform the mission, then return to their barracks. The Rangers perform in a similar fashion, with the occasional extended mission keping them in the field for weeks at a time. The Army Special Forces (Green Berets) however will spend months in the field, conducting all sorts of missions while they are out there. They don't get the benefit of repeat training in controlled environments like others, but they do apply their skills continuously. So with the question about unarmed combat, which is better - practical application or controlled training? Depends on your point of view, but at some point, you need to apply what you've learned.

Let me close with the question above - why the question about unarmed combat training?

[jims69camaro]

navy UDT (underwater demolition tech) and SEALS (sea air land) units spend more down time than actually on missions. i've met SEALS that were solid muscle, and some that were wiry (thin and flexible) and more that were my body type. any operative will have his specialty and they are encouraged to seek outside training. most guys would come in with a rudimentary knowledge of self-defense, but after six years (each tour) they would of course have a more in-depth knowledge. there are guys that spend every waking moment thinking about weight training, others who would spend their time training in martial arts (everything from tae kwon do to ju-jitsu to aikido). it all depends on the person and what they wanted from the experience. you're basically being paid to be in top physical condition, so it's up to you to fuldill that requirement.

while the CIA recruits from many different employment pools, they do have many ex-special forces members. some special forces members find civilian life boring and enlist themselves as mercenaries.

back to the OP: it would be impossible to pick one of the special forces and say they are the best martial artists. too many outside factors affect who excels in martial arts.

[ar0ck]

[redbanditZ28]

See, this is all interesting info. Thanks for the replies. I can't find this stuff out from websites.

I guess I asked about hand to hand combat because I was curious at to what training methods were used by each type of special forces. I realize there are a lot of factors involved, but even then, sometimes it could be easy for something to outshine the rest when everything is looked at from the overall perspective. But in this case, I guess not.

So some of these guys become mercenaries huh? Is that a legal profession? Or is it one of those things that is kept sercret and no one knows about it?

See, I am not trying to start this whole debate thing, but every time I talk to a different Marine or someone who went through Marine boot camp, they always get touchy when ever I bring up the Army and how they are compared to them. It could just be coincidental that I am speaking to a few Marine guys who are just that way, or maybe that is generally how they all feel. I don't know since I am not in the armed forces, but I just don't get it what resentment there is on the part of Marines towards the Army with certain things.

For instance, if you mistake a Marine for an Army infantry, or vice versa, you'll never hear the end of it. And I realize that no one likes to be called the wrong thing, but it seems like there is more to it than that from the people I talk to. Like there is some underlying resentment that I can't put my finger on. Maybe its that whole Army vs. Navy mentality thing that I learned from U.S. War and Politics.

[sweetbmxrider]

oh wow. i wanna back flip and chuck sharp objects!

[Ian]

being a mercenary is legal depending on how you go about it. most of the time, mercenaries are referred to as "contractors". companies like Blackwater, DynCorp and Triple Canopy are some private military companies that recruit former spec ops guys for work as contractors. There are other companies too, like KBR (Kellogg Brown & Root) which is a former division of Haliburton. KBR at one point sub-contracted out some work to Blackwater in Iraq.

[jims69camaro]

what ian said is true. your nationality and the current political climate can affect the 'legality' thing, though. let's say we're at war with a country. if you go in on our side and help us along, then there is nothing wrong with you being a merc. now, ir you were to be helping the other side, then our government may not look so kindly on your 'help' and may even try to take you down.

[Untamed]

The legality of being a mercenary depends on whether the group you work for is a company with a Tax ID or not.

That's it.

Call it "security" or "military training" or "strategic consulting" or any other euphemism meaning "professional, paid soldier outside of a government-controlled organization", and you are essentially a mercenary. Blackwater and DynCorp are two very high profile "private security" companies that employ former military personnel from many countries. They also possess some of the most sophisticated equipment and military hardware available to any organization; some say, its too sophisticated for anyone outside of the US Military.

[String]

Im gonna have to agree with the chuck norris answer.

[redbanditZ28]

Wow, a lot of interesting info on Mercenaries. Do you guys believe that there are any or a lot of U.S. mercenaries hired against us?

Also, how are they permitted to gain access to advanced weaponry the armed forces use? I understand they have training and all, but that doesn't seem like reason enough for them to be allowed military weaponry. Or maybe it is.

[jin1481]

The differences between Marines and Soldiers is that a Marine wanted to be something more then just a Soldier. A Marine is taught to respect his image and what his image means, hence the reason we don't wear our work uniforms in public especially at a Pep Boys with our blouse off (frigging nasty senior enlisted Soldier i saw the other day, you sir are nasty), the basic Marine receives as much combat training as a basic infantry Soldier so that things like Jessica Lynch don't happen to Marines, Marines have airplanes and helicopters, and above all Marines are Marines not Soldiers and Soldiers are Soldiers and didn't earn the title Marine.

Oorah, Semper Fi