Bad GM designs and ideas

[Blacdout96]

- Diesel 350
- 8-4-2 Engine
- Crossfire Engine
- Cadillac Cimarron
- Any interior ever put in a GM vehicle
- 7.5 rear in any 3rd or 4th gen
- T5 in any 3rd/4th gen

shall I continue?

[WildBillyT]

FYI, I spun your post off.

These should not necessarily be things that ended up being bad in the long run (i.e. stuff that couldn't hold up past stock) but rather things that sucked from day one.


I'd say the Vega's aluminum block was a rough one. And the '67 f-body rear setup for the big block cars.

I'd say no to the T-5 just because it was OK in a stock 3rd gen app.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

I still say that the seats in the Camaro are super comfortable, fit me great, and are pretty supportive for stock seats. Among the best in any vehicle I've been in. I know it's not the whole interior, just stating that not all of the interiors suck.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

I still say that the seats in the Camaro are super comfortable, fit me great, and are pretty supportive for stock seats. Among the best in any vehicle I've been in. I know it's not the whole interior, just stating that not all of the interiors suck.

I kind of like some of the old 60's interiors. Really had style. I think the 80s were rock bottom. My Novas was **** from the factory though.

[Blacdout96]

Good stuff there WBT, although I dock you a gold star for speaking of heresy about my silicone imprgenated block homies

I will agree ARG, they are actually quite comfortable and not too much of a hassle to get out of since the side supports aren't as bulging as in, oh, say a SRT4, that's a PITA for even me to get out of on a daily basis. My problem is the plastic fantastic squeeking everywhere.

- 3rd gen Brake prop valves. Were found to make the rear brakes apply almost zero pressre on the rear rotors, wasen't revised till about 89 or 91...
-

[V]

corvair? lol
location/depth of cup holder in early 4th gens
no cup holders in early/mid 3rd gens
northstar motors ripping head bolts out
dexcool
aveo
the ability to turn traction control AND stabilitrac off on a Cruze

[redsoxsstink]

4+3 corvette transmissions?
flip up headlight fails

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Good stuff there WBT, although I dock you a gold star for speaking of heresy about my silicone imprgenated block homies

I will agree ARG, they are actually quite comfortable and not too much of a hassle to get out of since the side supports aren't as bulging as in, oh, say a SRT4, that's a PITA for even me to get out of on a daily basis. My problem is the plastic fantastic squeeking everywhere.

- 3rd gen Brake prop valves. Were found to make the rear brakes apply almost zero pressre on the rear rotors, wasen't revised till about 89 or 91...
-

Originally Posted by Lordstown assembly writeup

In the winter and spring of 1971-72, under the pressure of increased workloads, workers (often the usually compliant 'hiilbillies') began to pass cars down the line with the odd bolt or minor part missing. The movement rapidly gained momentum. In one case a car came down the line with the body shelf neatly covering a pile of unassembled parts. Alvin B. Anderson, Manager of Lordstown, stated 'we've had cases of engine blocks passing 40 men without them doing their work.' (Cleveland Plain Dealer, January 23, 1972)

Yikes

[Blacdout96]

-Starter underneath the intake on Northstar
- Killing of the Fiero
- Continuing of Front engine placement for the Corvette

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

-Starter underneath the intake on Northstar
- Killing of the Fiero
- Continuing of Front engine placement for the Corvette

Did the Fiero sell well enough to warrant more production?

[Blacdout96]

Vega's were built under the wrong place during the right time. If they'd of been a sucess, Honda/Toyota/ insert asian car, wouldn't of thrived as well in America. It was a rush job that could of taken 1 more year to be ready, and still make quite an impact.

personally I defend just my cosworth Vega's, and one day, one will be mine....at least an engine from one will be mine

[1320B4U]

-Ev1..not a bad idea, but lets only lease these f'kers and destroy them when the lease expired even though there was public outcry for those that wanted to keep and buy the outright.
-So far the volt has been a disaster...bad advertising..no one knew it wasn't a traditional hybrid like the prius
What they turned Saturn into. It was a car that competed w/the Korean makes and baseline honda/toyotas'..cheap, good on gas and affordable. Then came the millenium and they were rebadging g6's as saturns and the big suv as a saturn (outlook)..they strayed from their mission statement and for the most part the majority if the public didn't associate them w/gm..they were profitable and viable and still would have turned a profit if they kept to the original gameplan.
-Hello, Hummer. Gm waited too long to cashout when the gas crisis hit.
-G8 idea...HOLD UP FOLKS...NOT WHAT YOU THINK....gm and pontiac waited too long to release a car that could compete w/the likes of bmw and lexus (m5 and isf)...by the time they did it was too little too late
-New GTO..sorry folks, lackluster styling, like the '95+ monte carlos. They should've went retro w/a '66 look alike..bring back the 389 via a punched out ls-uno....this along w/the g8 could've saved pontiac from the chopping block..hell, rebadge a 5th gen and change the styling a little and keep the firebird...bam...instant success.
-Cancelling the olds line was overdue. Unfortunately, there was no marketablility to the younger generation esp if they were going to keep Buick (as the new gs is hot). Their demographic were catered to octogenarian's who don't drive more than 20 miles a week and their car will last 30 years.
-Denali pickups and rear wheel steering. Remember these from 5 years ago? Each time i see one i cringe at how much it would cost to replace worn components...not needed when you have something big enough to drive over someone w/if your turning radius is in jeopardy..lol.
-Gm's idea to buy saab. Failing manufacturer w/a loyal fan base similar to waterfest attendee's...not solid enough to stand on their own. Unfortunately this Swedish egg was scrambled upon delivery unlike its lucrative counterpart base company Ikea.
-GM waiting too long to jump on the retro styling bandwagon. 5th gen was looong overdue as well as their answer to the pt cruiser=hhr. Market was saturated for the hhr as over a million + pt's were already sold and luckily the camaro was bad a$$ enough to hold its own agains the mustang, which came out a full 5 years earlier. Something tells me they have the answer to the beetle hidden in the gm vault upon release in 20 years.
-Opti-spark
-cross-fire injection in '82-84 vettes and early 3rd gen's

[Blacdout96]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Did the Fiero sell well enough to warrant more production?

Just like the Vega, and Pinto, the Fiero got a bad rap from Quality, fires, and what not. Once again, it was a Malaise era car, if it wasen't so rushed, and pushed to have new untested technology in it, it would of sold for as long as the MR2 did.

It was a great concept, and they sold them like hotcakes the first two years, but then the problems arose, and that was the end of that. but drive a 1988 Fiero GT, and tell me that car was a waste to keep.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Just like the Vega, and Pinto, the Fiero got a bad rap from Quality, fires, and what not. Once again, it was a Malaise era car, if it wasen't so rushed, and pushed to have new untested technology in it, it would of sold for as long as the MR2 did.

It was a great concept, and they sold them like hotcakes the first two years, but then the problems arose, and that was the end of that. but drive a 1988 Fiero GT, and tell me that car was a waste to keep.

Yeah, but I'm trying to be as objective as I can in this thread. It's easy to spout personal preference stuff about what they should have done in your opinion, or speculate sales numbers, or what cars were a cool idea, or what cars are fun to drive.

For example, the SSR was not a great seller and did nothing like it should well, but at least it got people looking into GM products because it was a cool idea.

I'm talking fall-flat-on-your-face stuff. Like didn't/barely worked properly, a royal pain to maintain, missed the target market by a mile, etc.

[Blacdout96]

How about Fiero's catching on fire? Aw yeah, back in the game

- 2000 to 2006 GM 4WD Trucks front hub assemblies
- 3rd Gen trunk closing motors and their plastic housing
- 4.4 V8

[1320B4U]

Pontiac aztek.....designers should have been waterboarded for that abortion.

[WildBillyT]

GTP fuel pressure resistor is a rough one.

Originally Posted by 1320B4U

Pontiac aztek.....designers should have been waterboarded for that abortion.

Big time.

[88WS-6]

Originally Posted by 1320B4U

Pontiac aztek.....designers should have been waterboarded for that abortion.

Side note:

Anyone catch (American) Top Gear finale last night?

[LS1ow]

/thread

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by LS1ow

/thread

Ehhh

Kinda.

Yeah, the opti sucks, but a lot of that has to do with placement on the engine vs overall ****tiness.

[deadtrend1]

Originally Posted by 88WS-6

Side note:

Anyone catch (American) Top Gear finale last night?

yes, I seen it

[S.J.SLEEPER]

Berretta..... = doors falling off going down the road

Passenger rear mounted above cradle Alternator on the 3.4l motors

2.2L head gasket blowin P.O.S.

2.8 3.1 etc... valve cover gasket design

4.3L "Spider" fuel injection setup

Geo......anything...lol

Lumina APV & Pontiac Transports....all junk & ugly p.o.s.'s

Northstar motors in general...starter, head gasket issues, upper deck of oil pan leaks which you have to pull the cradle, to pull the trans, to pull the exhaust, to pull the pan, than to finally get to the upper.

"full size" trucks,surburbans & tahoes with poor design pitman/idler arms that constantly go bad

the list doesnt end!!! lol

[Iroc-z86]

I shall partake,

1. Killing the s-series line.
2. only making two years of the 3.1 turbo and putting it in a heavy car (grand prix)
3. stopping the syclone/tycoon
4. crappy fuel level sending units that never work. (im surprised my new camaro still works)

im sure there is more that i cant think of right now... and for some reason i keep buying cars from these people lol

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Iroc-z86

I shall partake,

1. Killing the s-series line.
2. only making two years of the 3.1 turbo and putting it in a heavy car (grand prix)
3. stopping the syclone/tycoon
4. crappy fuel level sending units that never work. (im surprised my new camaro still works)
im sure there is more that i cant think of right now... and for some reason i keep buying cars from these people lol

Good one for the list right there. I went 125 miles without the needle moving in the T/A this week.

[BonzoHansen]

Funny, one user laments no mid engine car, the other laments the mid engine car. BTW the last iteration of the corvair was a fairly capable car.

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

- Diesel 350
- 8-4-2 Engine
- Crossfire Engine
- Cadillac Cimarron
- Any interior ever put in a GM vehicle
- 7.5 rear in any 3rd or 4th gen
- T5 in any 3rd/4th gen

shall I continue?

My Crossfire car would outrun any FBody you ever owned lol

Also disagree with the interior comment. Generally can't argue with the rest, give or take the t5 comment, at least in 3gs. Only V6 cars got T5s in 4g, right? Sleds.

those wimpy 10 bolts are a disaster. Vega holdover!