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07-17-2006, 12:27 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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Need Advice
I am doing a budget build over the next year on my 88 camaro. I am going to drop a 350 TBI into it with 350-400hp and am looking to get the entire car ready for that so nothing is breaking the first time I mash the gas So the question is what the cheapest route I can take for a rear that can handle 450hp (to be safe). Obviously I wanna go posi and because its and everyday care I was thinking 343's. I'd love to just be able to pull a rear out of the junkyard and not have to build it since I dont know anything about rear ends. So what wrecked car could donate me that rear?
PS: No fab work just drop right in and I'm flexible on the gears.
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-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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07-17-2006, 12:45 PM
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#2
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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with the no rebuild and no fab rules, you pretty much just have to get a 9 bolt. its stronger than the 7.5 inch rear thats in third gens and its stronger than a 4th gen rear. they came with 2.73's, 3.27's, 3.45's and I think someone makes 3.73's for them, but you'd have to get them put it. However, should you eventually break something in it, be prepared to either pay out the nose or replace the entire rear due to lack of an aftermarket. If by some stroke of pure luck you could find a third or fourth gen with a 12 bolt or a 9 inch, go with that. I'll also mention, that with some fabrication, you could probably get an 8.5 inch ten bolt out of a second gen, 78-81 malibu or a grand national to work but again, you'd have to have some fabrication done to the rear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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07-17-2006, 01:00 PM
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#3
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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See thats the thing I dont have the recources to fab things up and paying people costs alot... Thats why i heard that a rear from a 4th gen is a good direct swap replacement when upgrading for a 350.
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-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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07-17-2006, 01:01 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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The other thing is where do i get one?
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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07-17-2006, 02:36 PM
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#5
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Keyboard Tough Guy
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Trenton, NJ
Posts: 6,341
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if you go to a 4th gen rear even though it may swap right over its wider then your 3rd gen rear which means it will look retarded with your current rims/tires meaning you'll be spending extra money on that. A 9 bolt is a drop in replacement because many 3rd gens came equiped...I had a 3.27 geared 9 bolt in my 89 formula if im not mistaken.
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07-17-2006, 06:36 PM
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#6
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Banned Camp Director Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somerset County
Posts: 8,395
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I forgot to mention the track width difference. I also had a 3.27 geared 9 bolt in my 87 GTA. I never had any problems with it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddest434
and 1 more smart ass answer by you and i'm going to reach into this monitor and grab you by the throat
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09-12-2006, 09:01 PM
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#7
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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I am rezing the post because my intentions have changed and I still need help.
I'm more flexible on what needs to be done but anything major probably isnt going to fly although you wont waste your breath telling me what needs to be done. I expect to have a 500hp motor 300-350 na then 500 when turbo hits, I need something for a daily drive and weekend track car. My budget will probably wind up be $800 over the winter so how ever much of that I can save would help to put towards the motor build. What can I pull a 9bolt rear out of? Thinking 3.43's would be ideal for my driving. Can I expect 9bolts to be posi? and what the range of parts for them? Can I find the right stuff to turn an open rear into a posi for a 9 bolt or change the gear ratio?
PS 9bolt > 10bolt?
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
Last edited by r0nin89; 09-12-2006 at 09:47 PM.
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09-12-2006, 10:35 PM
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#8
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Co-Founder / Site Admin
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ewing, NJ
Posts: 22,473
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The factory third gen 9 bolt is the strongest rear that they put in any 82-02 F-body (besides the Dana 44 in the 92 Firehawks). They are still fairly easy to find, however parts to rebuild them are getting hard to find.
Most of them have 2.77 or 3.27 gears stock, some have 3.45s. You can still find some aftermarket gears for them, but not many.
- Justin
__________________
1999 Camry - Beigemobile DD
2002 Suburban - Wife's DD
2004 Grand Cherokee - Not running / Project / Selling?
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09-12-2006, 11:01 PM
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#9
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Stalker
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12,077
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i have a posi 9 bolt with 2.77s, i can get like 250 for it, thats the going price, but my point is, they are pretty easy to find like justin said. You can still buy the factory gear ratios easily though afaik, and im pretty sure 3.45s will bolt onto a carrier that had 2.77, unlike 10 bolt carriers.
a while back i sold a 9 bolt with 3.45s out of some 88 camaro i parted out.... hehe
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09-13-2006, 07:14 AM
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#10
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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So your looking for $250 for it? I was thinking based on what TGO said that I should aim for a 10bolt and beef it up (that costs a good $500 besides the price of the rear) if my car is never going to see slicks. The 9 bolt sounds like the way to go if I weld up the weak points and drop some aftermarket 3.45's in it. Where in NJ you at because I am definatly up for handing you $250 so I have a winter project
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
Last edited by r0nin89; 09-13-2006 at 07:25 AM.
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09-13-2006, 02:03 PM
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#11
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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Help meeeeessss!
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-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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09-14-2006, 07:17 AM
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#12
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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Clearly noone loves me I'm selling my Camaro and buying a honda!
I cant even hold a straight face...
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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09-14-2006, 08:23 AM
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#13
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NJFBOA Supporting Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HULMEVILLE, PA
Posts: 2,023
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If you are planning to have any more than 400 hp at the crank just bite the bullet and get yourself a 12 bolt from moser, starnge, dts, etc. etc. There is no "junkyard" rear that will hold any decent power without fragmenting.. Plus you can always go bigger in the future and you will have a car that can take the power..
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JSSPEEDANDCUSTOM.COM
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09-14-2006, 01:50 PM
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#14
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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Yeah I am starting to see that... I'm thinking about picking up a junked 12bolt and fab'ing it for coils and rebuilding it. The only concern I have is how off is the width going to be?
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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09-14-2006, 03:00 PM
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#15
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
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You have the torque arm mount to deal with too.
Run what you got until it breaks - then buy a 12 bolt or 9" at that time.
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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09-14-2006, 07:26 PM
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#16
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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I will not have the money to buy a $2000 12 bolt rear for my car... I'm looking to get one out of an old SS and rebuild it and fab the mounts. So what I need to know is what body style had the closest width 12 bolt rear to our Fbody rears?
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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09-14-2006, 07:51 PM
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#17
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NJFBOA Supporting Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HULMEVILLE, PA
Posts: 2,023
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Unless you have advanced welding and fabrication abilities and a magic welder that can join steel to cast with any serious strength, making a chevelle 12 bolt work with the factory torque arm setup aint gonna happen.. Besides even if you make the housing work you are looking at $400 for a posi unit, $225 for gears, $150 for an install kit, etc.etc. All said and done you will be in the same ballpark with an inferior unit.. The moser bolt in 12 bolt is a totally different aftermarket casting it was NEVER available in a car from any factory. There were no cars with 12 bolts close to a third gen so you would have to narrow the rear and have custom axels made.. Listen man moser and strange make a great product that bolts right into your car, takes all the guesswork out, and is damn near indestructable. All in all if you dont have the money to do it right, dont do it at all.
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JSSPEEDANDCUSTOM.COM
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09-14-2006, 08:16 PM
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#18
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Admin.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
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Going fast is 'spensive!
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.
Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.
Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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09-14-2006, 09:24 PM
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#19
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Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSPERFORMANCE
Unless you have advanced welding and fabrication abilities and a magic welder that can join steel to cast with any serious strength, making a chevelle 12 bolt work with the factory torque arm setup aint gonna happen.. Besides even if you make the housing work you are looking at $400 for a posi unit, $225 for gears, $150 for an install kit, etc.etc. All said and done you will be in the same ballpark with an inferior unit.. The moser bolt in 12 bolt is a totally different aftermarket casting it was NEVER available in a car from any factory. There were no cars with 12 bolts close to a third gen so you would have to narrow the rear and have custom axels made.. Listen man moser and strange make a great product that bolts right into your car, takes all the guesswork out, and is damn near indestructable. All in all if you dont have the money to do it right, dont do it at all.
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This man tells it like it is.
Modifying an axle housing can be (from my experience) a royal pain in the ass. Even properly welding axle tubes can be tricky with preheating etc...
If you don't go with a factory 3rd gen 10 bolt then your only other option is really an aftermarket or custom rear. You should start scanning the classifieds for a used one if you can't afford one new right now.
Last edited by WildBillyT; 09-14-2006 at 09:27 PM.
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09-15-2006, 07:31 AM
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#20
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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Yeah I'm realising this.......................................
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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09-15-2006, 07:55 AM
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#21
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11 Second Club
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fishkill, NY
Posts: 1,278
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Are you running an automatic? If you are there is no reason to spend $2000 on a 12 bolt for 400HP. Pick up a 9 bolt, get the gears you want for it and buy the new T/A girdle it will last you years if you don't run slicks. If you are planning on using slicks then you need to get something aftermarket. The 9 bolt is a very good piece of hardware. It is not as strong as a 12 bolt or ford 9 inch but you won't be out $2K + for it and it should be more then enough for a 400HP car with street tires if it is an automatic.
If you are running a T5 suck it up and get a 12 bolt.
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-Nick
9/11/01- Never Forget
2002 Pontiac Trans-Am WS6 # 206
Chasing 10's
469RWH/437RWTQ
11.05 @ 123
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09-15-2006, 09:59 AM
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#22
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Co-Founder / Site Admin
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ewing, NJ
Posts: 22,473
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You could also try looking around for a Dana 44 made for a 3rd gen. You don't see them very often, but they pop up on TGO here and there. They are more expensive than a 9 or 10 bolt, but cheaper than a 12 bolt or 9".
- Justin
__________________
1999 Camry - Beigemobile DD
2002 Suburban - Wife's DD
2004 Grand Cherokee - Not running / Project / Selling?
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09-16-2006, 11:03 AM
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#23
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Point Pleasant
Posts: 1,809
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Well the plan is 500rwhp street. I will most likely never run slicks and yes its an automatic. I'm thinking about going a Fbody 9" the prices seem cheaper than a 12bolt but its suppose to have the same performance and "bullet proof" factor.
__________________
-Vinnie
94 2wd SBSC Gmt400. 330CI LSX, Fast 102, Trickflow 205s, close ratio nv3500, 4.30/trutrac.
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09-16-2006, 02:11 PM
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#24
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Co-Founder / Site Admin
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ewing, NJ
Posts: 22,473
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The Ford 9" is a good rear, and with 500ish rwhp and an automatic on street tires, you'll prolly never break it. Tires will always be the weak link....
- Justin
__________________
1999 Camry - Beigemobile DD
2002 Suburban - Wife's DD
2004 Grand Cherokee - Not running / Project / Selling?
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09-16-2006, 06:58 PM
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#25
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NJFBOA Supporting Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HULMEVILLE, PA
Posts: 2,023
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You do know 500 rwhp is enough to get the car into the 10's, right? With GM tbi not a 4bbl throttle body and fast or other aftermarket management?? Please enlighten me...
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