THE biggest online debate ever?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

it is a very simple concept. if you are running on a treadmill it is your feet that is keeping pace with the treadmill.
in teh case of an airplane the wheels just sit and spin freely at whatever pace the ground under them dictates.
the thrust force of the jet engines works independantly of the wheels. it will push the plane forward regardless fo what the ground beneath the plane is doing and whatever effect that ground has on the wheels.
the plane would move forward and take off as if the conveyor system wasn't there. the only effect you would see is if you tracked the wheel speeds they woudl actually be spinning at twice teh speed of the air plane during acceleration, which doesn't matter since the wheels are jsut free spinning like roller skate wheels anyway.
and as a side note, it is actually the low pressure area above a wing that creates lift, not the force under teh wing.

thanks tim, but matt already explained it to me.

[Firebird67dude]

I didnt bother reading the whole thread but did anybody think that the plane engines suck the air in and thrust it out??? the conveyer belt would need to be mad big, like mmmmmm, onec the boost from the plane's engine reachesland that isnt the belt it would move. how bout this.....hahahhahaha.... move the is it a jet plane or a prop driven plane? The prop driven plane would fly away, but the jet plane would not. bIf it was a jet plane itd be traveling at -100 mph not matter wat speed if the conveyer belt was goin the same exact speed but in the opposite direction.

[95firebirdconvertible]

Did anyone else realize that this is a trick thread?

[Teds89IROC]

The plane's speed has nothing to do with the speed of the wheels. The plane can be traveling at 500 mph ground speed and the wheels can be moving 2 mph, they are not dependent upon each other.

~Ted

[oh one ls1 SS]

if the plane will take off using the convayer system..whats the point? i dont know if the plane will take off or not but it will move now that i think about it the wheels have nothing to do with the speed because thats now what powers the plane to move.. like everyone else said like i said yesterday... if it aint broke dont fix it

[V]

lol i think its funny that this "debate" has gotten this far. The plane will move forward, it will take off. propellor or jet driven planes move upon the principal of a force acting upon the surrounding air, the status of the wheels does not matter.

say they are measuring air speed of the plane, we'll say 50mph just as an example, ok so now the belt is going 50 mph in the opposite direction, the planes wheels will now be going 50mph+50mph(or 2x the speed of the belt) so therefore 100mph forward. However the plane is still moving 50mph forward. True even at lower speeds which would allow for the acceleration to the speed needed for lift off.
Plane=1mph, belt=1mph, wheels=2mph .... overall movement +1mph
Plane=2mph, Belt=2mph, Wheels=4mph .... overall movement +2mph
...etc...
xP(plane)=xB(belt)=2xW(wheels) x=mph

just keep in mind that this "treadmill" will need to be the length of a runway at least to keep the idea of the belt vs wheels going, otherwise the plane will move right off it.

yeah i know no one will understand this...but oh well, keep thinking the plane will sit in one place. its like saying a jet engine car will have traction problems. lol

[Koll]

Originally Posted by SmokingSS

lol i think its funny that this "debate" has gotten this far. The plane will move forward, it will take off. propellor or jet driven planes move upon the principal of a force acting upon the surrounding air, the status of the wheels does not matter.

say they are measuring air speed of the plane, we'll say 50mph just as an example, ok so now the belt is going 50 mph in the opposite direction, the planes wheels will now be going 50mph+50mph(or 2x the speed of the belt) so therefore 100mph forward. However the plane is still moving 50mph forward. True even at lower speeds which would allow for the acceleration to the speed needed for lift off.
Plane=1mph, belt=1mph, wheels=2mph .... overall movement +1mph
Plane=2mph, Belt=2mph, Wheels=4mph .... overall movement +2mph
...etc...
xP(plane)=xB(belt)=2xW(wheels) x=mph

just keep in mind that this "treadmill" will need to be the length of a runway at least to keep the idea of the belt vs wheels going, otherwise the plane will move right off it.

yeah i know no one will understand this...but oh well, keep thinking the plane will sit in one place. its like saying a jet engine car will have traction problems. lol

...........no

[jims69camaro]

forget the wheels, already. they have nothing to do with the plane's speed.

[qwikz28]

i'm not gonna lie. the only thing i dont understand is why the belt cant continue to accelerate even though its not the wheels propelling it? i understand that the wheels dont involve the motion but the belt does and that can move at any speed so wouldnt that counteract the thrust reguardless?

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by qwikz28

i'm not gonna lie. the only thing i dont understand is why the belt cant continue to accelerate even though its not the wheels propelling it? i understand that the wheels dont involve the motion but the belt does and that can move at any speed so wouldnt that counteract the thrust reguardless?

i was thinking the same. i know wheels dont measure the airplanes speed. Thats what ram air and pitot tube are for. So how can an airplane take off at 0 airspeed? If conveyer belt has an X speed that means it will counteract ANY speed produced by the thrusters or props. That will result at 0 airspeed and from my experiences while flying airplanes they simply dont take off at 0 airspeed, ever. Maybe someone can show it to me?

[Tru2Chevy]

I didn't hear the full explanation that he gave, however Scott's (96ImpSS) brother is an Aeronautical (sp?) Engineer for NASA, and we asked him this question last night. According to him, the plane would not take off, as long as the conveyor was measuring the speed of plane and matching it in the opposite direction.

- Justin

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

I didn't hear the full explanation that he gave, however Scott's (96ImpSS) brother is an Aeronautical (sp?) Engineer for NASA, and we asked him this question last night. According to him, the plane would not take off, as long as the conveyor was measuring the speed of plane and matching it in the opposite direction.

- Justin

Thanks, we win!

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

I didn't hear the full explanation that he gave, however Scott's (96ImpSS) brother is an Aeronautical (sp?) Engineer for NASA, and we asked him this question last night. According to him, the plane would not take off, as long as the conveyor was measuring the speed of plane and matching it in the opposite direction.

- Justin

cause even if the thrust moves the plane not the wheels, the wheels still continue to move. now if the wheels/belt are held at a constant speed and then you ask if the plane can still take off, thats a different question.

i still say damn the man who made this trick question!

[Firebird67dude]

I say we just call myth busters and myb if they do this one of them will die... and i will LAUGH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[jims69camaro]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

the conveyor was measuring the speed of plane and matching it in the opposite direction.

- Justin

my point exactly. i didn't have years of school and then years of work experience to determine that, either...

[Rob WS6]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

I didn't hear the full explanation that he gave, however Scott's (96ImpSS) brother is an Aeronautical (sp?) Engineer for NASA, and we asked him this question last night. According to him, the plane would not take off, as long as the conveyor was measuring the speed of plane and matching it in the opposite direction.

- Justin

And now I have just about lost all faith in NASA. Your kidding me, right? I mean really, you ARE joking?

[Savage_Messiah]

[Firebird67dude]

Sorry for the double post but here..... The plane would be moving backwards at 100mph bcuz: the conveyer belt is moving north at 300mph, plane speed is south at 300mph plane is not moving. the speed would balance themselves out. The plane needs lift under the wings which is air speed. It is not getting it with a jet engine, a prop driven plane would get lift bcuz the prop causes wind speed over the wing causing lift.





BIOTCH

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Firebird67dude

Sorry for the double post but here..... The plane would be moving backwards at 100mph bcuz: the conveyer belt is moving north at 300mph, plane speed is south at 300mph plane is not moving. the speed would balance themselves out. The plane needs lift under the wings which is air speed. It is not getting it with a jet engine, a prop driven plane would get lift bcuz the prop causes wind speed over the wing causing lift.





BIOTCH

it still wont take off. I can sit on the ramp and redline the engine all day long and if my airspeed indicator reads zero the plane will be on the ground. And you that do as a part of "before take off" checklist.

[Kojak]

Wow I cant believe I read it all... and I am a bit confused, I understand why the guys who think it will take off think that it will take off, and it seems like they could be right but,

No matter how much I want to see it take off I don’t think it will because the wheels are relevant to the plane on take off. As long as the treadmill is balancing out the speed of the tires of the plane, which have nothing to do with airspeed, it will stay grounded. In order for flight you need thrust and lift, in this situation their will be tons and tons of thrust but no lift because the plane will not be moving foreword...

And yeah F The Plane..!

[Kojak]

The only way i could see it taking off is if the treadmill wasn't attached to the ground, so it could move with the plane.

[Kojak]

You know Chuck Norris once took out a plane by pointing to the sky and saying bang...

[Ian]

the belt does not counteract the thrust because it does not act directly upon the thrust. If the plane were tied down, yes, there would be no thrust, but its free to move. the thrust is pushing the BODY of the plane, not the wheels. Think of it like water skiing. the boat is pulling you (thrust) and the skis go along for the ride. same thing.

Funny at the beginning of the thread I thought it wouldnt take off.

[Savage_Messiah]

F THE PLANE!!!!!!

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

F THE PLANE!!!!!!

word son, just like my sig says!