Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/T's vs. BF Goodrich Radial T/A's

[68bird]

This ones actually for the Corvette. She's still got a set of Goodyear Eagle GT's (possibly original to the car) size 255/60R15.
We've looked them up and the only two that came up were the M/T Sportsman's and the BF Radial T/A's, I've tried looking up the differences between them but so far they seem pretty even. I'm looking more for overall performance (dry/wet) than the way it looks.
Has anyone had either one or both of these on their cars and what do you think of them?

[68bird]

I pose this question here because I want to hear from people who actually use their cars in the rain and in the dry.

[Tru2Chevy]

Don't really have any experience with either of those tires, but just wanted to add that Cooper Cobra Radial G/Ts and Mastercraft Avenger G/Ts are also available in that size. They are very similar tires with a slightly different tread design (Mastercraft is made by Cooper).

- Justin

[68bird]

Thanks Justin
I'll keep them in mind

[BonzoHansen]

Are you mounting them RWL out or blackwall?
What kind of quality is the car? Is it going to be sold soon?

The MT are a new tire and I don't know too many people with them. So no experience good or bad.

I'm not in love with BFG TAs anymore, I'm seeing quality issues. Coker might be making them now but I am not sure. But they are still a good looking tire and a name brand.

No offense, but if you put mastercrafts on a vette it screams POS. When you see a cheapo tire on a car you assume the rest of the car is cheapo too and full of cut corners. Harsh but true.

Coopers get a credible pass on a street car as they are a very decent tire. If you are mounting them BW I'd look twice at them.

If Firestone had not just killed their 500 line I'd have told you to go buy those. But you're like 6 months or so late on that. You can try and see if STS has a set on the shelves somewhere.

All that said....RWL tires are what they used to call 'cosmetic performance'. Meaning they look fast but are no more performance than grandpa's whitewalls because they are the same tire. IMO the decision points on RWL tires are 1) looks and 2) cost. Buy the ones that look good to you you can afford.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Are you mounting them RWL out or blackwall?
What kind of quality is the car? Is it going to be sold soon?

The MT are a new tire and I don't know too many people with them. So no experience good or bad.

I'm not in love with BFG TAs anymore, I'm seeing quality issues. Coker might be making them now but I am not sure. But they are still a good looking tire and a name brand.

No offense, but if you put mastercrafts on a vette it screams POS. When you see a cheapo tire on a car you assume the rest of the car is cheapo too and full of cut corners. Harsh but true.

Coopers get a credible pass on a street car as they are a very decent tire. If you are mounting them BW I'd look twice at them.

If Firestone had not just killed their 500 line I'd have told you to go buy those. But you're like 6 months or so late on that. You can try and see if STS has a set on the shelves somewhere.

All that said....RWL tires are what they used to call 'cosmetic performance'. Meaning they look fast but are no more performance than grandpa's whitewalls because they are the same tire. IMO the decision points on RWL tires are 1) looks and 2) cost. Buy the ones that look good to you you can afford.

I have to replace the BFGs on the Nova for next season and BFGs will be going back on there, but not for performance reasons:

1.) 15" rims limit performance tire selection
2.) BFGs look good
3.) Costco quoted me a screaming deal for all 4.

That's it. They aren't really "performance" as Scott stated above. I would, and am, going BFG strictly for the name. Cooper Cobras and whatever Goodyear makes probably carry the same weight. Any other non-mainstream RWL brand just seems very rednecky to me.

JMHO

[BonzoHansen]

IIRC the term "cosmetic performance" came right out of my BFG training materials back in the day.


There are no performance 255/60/15s. Was that OE on C3s? Might be, I forget. I do remember putting that size on those cars though.

Pirlelli probably still makes a V rated P6000 as the P6 or P600 version was OE on some 5 series BMWs. After that the choices narrow quickly. Might be some speed rated 225/60/15s out there, but I don't like any cars that fits well on lol.

There are speed rated 225/70/15 (2nd gen OE hoops) because of Jags and cop cars. I bet Pirelli, Goodyear and Michelin all make ones that size, But who cares lol. Actually, whatever they call an MXV4 now might ride nice on a cruiser!

[WildBillyT]

255/60/15s was stock on '78 pacers and I think optional on others.

[BonzoHansen]

I believe it. 15x8 wheels need decent sized hoops

[WildBillyT]

Get this. 15x8s were stock since '69- when they had the equivalent of a 215/70/15 on 'em. Good lord.

Sorry for the hijack, just had to share.

[68bird]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Are you mounting them RWL out or blackwall?
What kind of quality is the car? Is it going to be sold soon?

The MT are a new tire and I don't know too many people with them. So no experience good or bad.

I'm not in love with BFG TAs anymore, I'm seeing quality issues. Coker might be making them now but I am not sure. But they are still a good looking tire and a name brand.

No offense, but if you put mastercrafts on a vette it screams POS. When you see a cheapo tire on a car you assume the rest of the car is cheapo too and full of cut corners. Harsh but true.

Coopers get a credible pass on a street car as they are a very decent tire. If you are mounting them BW I'd look twice at them.

If Firestone had not just killed their 500 line I'd have told you to go buy those. But you're like 6 months or so late on that. You can try and see if STS has a set on the shelves somewhere.

All that said....RWL tires are what they used to call 'cosmetic performance'. Meaning they look fast but are no more performance than grandpa's whitewalls because they are the same tire. IMO the decision points on RWL tires are 1) looks and 2) cost. Buy the ones that look good to you you can afford.

The car is in between a daily driver and car show car (she's been a Garage Queen up until recently with just over 40,000 miles on the odometer).
I'm using her as a daily driver to and from work till I get the Firebird up and running (should be ready by the summer, barring no mechanical complications).
So she's going to be my daily driver/lite use track toy for now. So I'm more focused on the performance and wear life than I am about the way it looks on the car. Plus I can always paint the raised letters if I really want to.
I'm leaning more towards the M/T's, but I heard they suck in the rain.

[68bird]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

255/60/15s was stock on '78 pacers and I think optional on others.

Yes they were standard on the pace car and (I think) the anniversary cars, and an option for the rest of the lineup that year.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by 68bird

The car is in between a daily driver and car show car (she's been a Garage Queen up until recently with just over 40,000 miles on the odometer).
I'm using her as a daily driver to and from work till I get the Firebird up and running (should be ready by the summer, barring no mechanical complications).
So she's going to be my daily driver/lite use track toy for now. So I'm more focused on the performance and wear life than I am about the way it looks on the car. Plus I can always paint the raised letters if I really want to.
I'm leaning more towards the M/T's, but I heard they suck in the rain.

Frank, be honest, you aren't going to track that car if it is being daily driven. That age and that few miles = lots of things are going to wear out fast and break. I won;t even get into the hard steering parts. All those 32 year old rubber bushings are going to move around a lot and I doubt tire mileage will be the tire's fault. I've done my share of alignments on those cars and they were a PITA at half that age because of bushing issues and trouble with getting the rear adjustments to move. So I guess I'm saying don't worry about the tire with the longest mileage. It doesn't matter.

There are no 255/60/15 performance tires. No RWD car with 255/60/15s is going to be good in the rain or even moveable in snow. None are high mileage tires in the modern sense. I'll almost bet the BFGs, Coopers and MTs perform within 10% of each other in mileage, wear, handling & wet weather.

You don't paint letters! See comments about cheap looking. The point about letters is if you plan to mount RWL out then get a name brand, which at this point is BFG or to a lesser degree Cooper. There does not appear to be another brand name made anymore. If you are mounting them black then that makes decision easier.

I've seen 3 or so cars with those new MTs on them, and none of them were daily drivers or had a lot of miles. They may be great, they may suck. I've read/heard no useful feedback on them. But in looking at that tire I suspect it is no improvement over the other ones. All of which represent 20+ year old technology.

Decision is 1) looks and 2) cost. Anything else and you are over thinking it.

I'll add #3. Availability. I bet Cooper might win that one as to getting a replacement in 1-2 days.

[68bird]

Ok maybe I should rephrase the term track car, what I ment was when they have those learn to drive your car on the track days. I know it's going to be bad in the rain so I'm trying to get what I can out of it. Bushings are all brand new, I'm installing them later this week. As for the painted letters, yes I do like them but I like the way the original eagle GT's looked with the raised white outline. But I'll be damned if I buy $400 tires to get that look!http://www.mamotorworks.com/corvette-4-297-11247.html. Raised non colored tires would give me the ability to do that (or at least make it easier to do).
So now it's just a matter of price, if they all are close to each other in performance and style.

[BonzoHansen]

those are repops of originals, yikes! no, you don't need those. talk about corvette tax!

by painted letters I meant you paint. I think duplicolor makes some dumb kit for it. OWL/RWL are not painted on, they are part of the tire like a white wall. I've seen guys try to paint on letters. never looks good long. i don't think there are tires out there in that size that are not rwl. you'd just mount them black side out if you want no letters. if you change your mind you hive them remounted. but that is the 'looks' part, if you ever plan to mount them rwl.

so you are replacing all the control arm bushings and rear trailing arm bushings and all? Cool. That is a lot of work but then all the rear alignment adjustments should be clean and loose. If you need an alignment you better bring your own rear toe shims. I wouldn't expect any normal shop to have them on hand.

[68bird]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

those are repops of originals, yikes! no, you don't need those. talk about corvette tax!

by painted letters I meant you paint. I think duplicolor makes some dumb kit for it. OWL/RWL are not painted on, they are part of the tire like a white wall. I've seen guys try to paint on letters. never looks good long. i don't think there are tires out there in that size that are not rwl. you'd just mount them black side out if you want no letters. if you change your mind you hive them remounted. but that is the 'looks' part, if you ever plan to mount them rwl.

so you are replacing all the control arm bushings and rear trailing arm bushings and all? Cool. That is a lot of work but then all the rear alignment adjustments should be clean and loose. If you need an alignment you better bring your own rear toe shims. I wouldn't expect any normal shop to have them on hand.

Gotta be done the front a arm bushings are almost nonexistent at this point. So I got the total suspension kit from ecklers and the guys at BBC in Rahway said they'd help me fill in the blanks.

[BonzoHansen]

Nice

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by 68bird

Gotta be done the front a arm bushings are almost nonexistent at this point. So I got the total suspension kit from ecklers and the guys at BBC in Rahway said they'd help me fill in the blanks.

Muskegon Brake is a good source for stuff too.

[68bird]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Muskegon Brake is a good source for stuff too.

I would have probably gotten it from them but I went with the poly urethane so I won't have to change them again for a while, plus it was 15% off because of a holiday discount.

[SRGN]

I had the S/Ts on the front of my Skylark bracket car with Nittos out back. I used the car in the rain, the tires handled pretty good but it's not like you have a super sticky performance tire. I'd buy 'em again without hesitation, especially for a car that sees mainly street duty. I had an '81 Vette, if I still had the car I would pick these up for the stock rims. Make sure you have the rear bearings in order, a wider tire puts even more strain on them. With the age of the car I'd rebuild the rear bearing assemblies just for peace of mind. They haven't been greased for 30+ years now.

[68bird]

The way some of the other forums I searched on we're saying. They made it sound like the S/T's had almost no traction at all in the rain. I'm still kind of on the fence but its looking more and more like the S/T's aren't a bad choice.