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Old 07-16-2020, 08:45 AM   #126
LTb1ow
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I would not feel so great with a fuel gauge hanging a motor with JB weld, but thats me.

Does the sniper not allow for extra inputs?
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:46 AM   #127
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I have been spending some time on the Holley sniper forums looking into the fuel pressure topic. unfortunately, in all the reading I have done, even the experts use a mechanical gauge. holley sniper software doesn't have provisions for a fuel gauge on a datalog, and I have yet to find a single person who has a setup that uses a fuel pressure monitoring device tied into the sniper software in any way shape or form.
https://forums.holley.com/showthread...8356#post88356

the other option people do is put in a fitting with a schrader valve and then spot-check the fuel pressure if they are troubleshooting a fuel issue. a port and fitting for a schrader valve would look pretty unsightly at that spot on my engine so that wasn't an option for me. luckily I am not having fueling issues, but it is nice to now know that I do indeed have proper fuel pressure.

So as it stands, I am going to leave the gauge for a little bit. not entirely sure I like the look of having it there or not. since its a 1 minute install/removal of the -8 an fitting, what I might do is only install it if I want to check/troubleshoot a future issue. and then keep it in a box on the parts shelf off of the engine. the JB weld was not to mount the gauge, the threads are holding it firmly in place, but without something (teflon sealant, tape, jb weld etc) there was no way I could think of to get the gauge's fitting to seal while also keeping the numbers facing upwards. If I had to resort to cranking the fitting tight to prevent leaks resulting in the numbers being up-side-down.. I would probably sell the car for scrap metal. If you guys had/have any other thoughts, please let me know.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:50 AM   #128
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I like the idea of it being of use if/when you need it to diagnose an issue given the orientation will bother you. It's just not worth running into a potential fuel leak for obvious reasons.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:44 PM   #129
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Unpopular opinion, but a fuel pressure gauge you can only check at idle, is fairly useless for anything outside of setting initial pressure. So why leave it and risk a potential leak?
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Old 07-16-2020, 04:48 PM   #130
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Yep. You guys are right and I am half in agreement. Due to functionality and also due to aesthetics. Maybe I’ll leave the gauge in place on Monday Wednesday Friday and then remove it the rest of the days of the week.

Nah, in all seriousness, I Have heard lots of cases of fuel problems while reading on the Holley sniper forums and such. One of the easiest things to check is fuel pressure to eliminate that as a problem when troubleshooting (you guys already know this, but I like to ramble and over explain things anyways). So I had always wanted to verify that my fuel pump was doing it’s job and that the snipers fuel pressure regulator was working correctly. This gauge confirmed my thoughts and I can rest easy now. So aesthetically it doesn’t really jive with the horizontal and linear lines of the engine; and in rare cases, people ha e claimed their gauge bezel has leaked fuel. I think I will keep it on for a week or so and use a go-pro camera to maybe see/record fuel pressure at WOT and with load on the car. Then remove it.

I know I will want to see what happens to fuel pressure this winter when installing the wet nitrous system and whatnot. So it will
Be good to have but I agree I don’t need it on the car now (weight reduction!!) and then just take my 7/8” wrench and install it/uninstall it
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:56 PM   #131
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Its easy to spend others money, but a electric fuel pressure setup would be what I would setup if you can swing it. That way you can always safely monitor fuel pressure at WOT and spirited driving conditions.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:07 PM   #132
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Yeah I was going to suggest an electronic sender too. That or a quick connect style fitting that could be capped off nicely somehow.
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:00 PM   #133
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Being able to see your fuel pressure is nice.

Watching your car burn down due to a fuel leak, not so much.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:46 PM   #134
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that electric fuel pressure monitoring system sounds like a good idea. I will do some research but it might be an investment I may add into the Nitrous system $budget project for this upcoming winter. especially if I don't decide to go with a separate fuel tank/pump/lines just for the nitrous and I have all the fuel coming from the oem tank with the -8 line.. I would certainly want to monitor fuel pressure (electronically for datalogs) to see that I am not running lean on fuel at WOT on a 150-200 shot.

cool, thanks guys.
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:30 PM   #135
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car is packed up and ready to roll out tomorrow for the 4 hour drive to UMI motorsports park/and the Holiday Inn for the two day UMI autocross event. I tend to overpack a lot of tools and supplies, so the car is pretty weighted down.

unfortunately I didn't have money in the spending budget this year for a really good set of autocross tires. with my wheel size I only have a few options, and I am probably eventually going to go with the Falken Azenis RT615K+ tires. I am going to speak to a lot of people at the event about tires and this will help me eventually make my decision... but for this year, these tires are going to me my weak-point. They are 5 years old and a 300 treadwear Nitto 555 set of tires. . its what I got, and I'll do my best to make them work good I hope. I am also very used to them since I've done about 6 autoX events with them, so there wont be any on-track surprises or learning with a new set of tires.

Aside from that, the car is ready. that fuel pressure gauge setup is off, and I actually called summit and they are going to send me a replacement gauge and replacement fitting for free, because I noticed that the on/off/on/off/tightening I had done caused the gauge to leak some glycerine! I am sending the old ones back. they were very helpful on the phone.


I know Scott, BTK, and a few of their buddies (Joe and Curt) will be at UMI. along with a few people I know on www.thirdgen.org. Should be a good time. wish us all good luck, but no matter what it will be fun!
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:22 PM   #136
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Enjoy the event. It is a lot of fun with a very nice group of cars.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:49 AM   #137
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Have fun, look forward to reading about it!
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:29 PM   #138
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Another great event completed!

Short Version:
Left mid morning on Thursday for the 230 mile drive out to the event. Thursday night we went to the track and got our registration packets and went through tech. A lot more people took their cars on trailers this year it seemed. Pizza dinner provided by UMI at the track and then parking lot party at the hotel at night. Friday Autocross started around 9am after the drivers meeting. I was in run group 1 (same with Scott, Billy, Curt). I had difficulty fighting the car to react how I wanted it to react despite tire pressure changes, strut/shock changes, and varying between which gear I wanted to be in for which part of the course). We all got 7 runs on Friday. I tagged some cones, slid the car around more than needed and overall it just wasn’t my best day. UMI provided lunch and at night they had food trucks, a local country singer, a bonfire, and parking lot party. Lexi took Scott Billy and I for a thrilling ride though the woods on one of the side-by-side 4 wheelers. Saturday I did my best to focus and made a few runs with similar times to my best times of Friday afternoon. Then, I decided that I would crank up some more rear brake pressure to maybe keep the car more settled and not nose dive/push so much. This seemed to work and I wish I had done it sooner. The afternoon I made a string of mid 48 second runs and I was happy with that. Loaded up the car with my 300+ pounds of gear and made the long drive home. Only had one mechanical gremlin the whole weekend, and that is my fuel pump/tank got way too hot during the ride home, but I got that solved. My biggest takeaway was that I need to be more forceful and snappy with steering inputs. With this new build I am hesitant to “know” the car yet, so that’s why I wasn’t so direct and crisp. I also really don’t trust these 5 year old hard rubber street tires to do what I want them to do, and for good reason.. because on many occasions they just don’t grip and the car slides right, left, and forward too much. I will keep these nittos for this year, but next year I will have a set of BFG rivals, Falken Azenis, or Bridgestone RE71rs for my current 18” wheels. Overall, super fun weekend. Great weather, food, people, lots of laughs and excitement.








Longer version:
Packed up the car on Wednesday with a ton of tools, parts, fluids, floor jack, jack stands, spare wheel and tire, helmet, clothes, laptop, and so forth. Cranked up the rear shocks to the max to keep the tires off the inner fenders if I hit a huge bump on the highway at speed (this happened last year and I got a few small slices in the pass side tire). Left for PA mid morning on Thursday so traffic was light and sunglare was low. The directions are super easy. Just get on rt 80 from my neighborhood, take it for 220+ miles and get off at the exit, two left turns and I am in the hotel parking lot. Saw a few fellow UMI participants during the drive. After checking into the hotel we headed over to the track to get our registration packets, stickers, and to go through tech inspection. We got to walk the course too, so I did that twice. UMI had pizza for dinner as more and more people arrived and unloaded their cars from trailers. There was definitely a lot more cars coming on trailers this year; lots and lots of high caliber cars. Party in the parking lot at night.
Friday I drove the car over to the track and we started racing around 9am after the usual drivers meeting and national anthem. There were 120 vehicles registered for the event and I think 110 or so showed up. They split the field into 3 run groups just based on where you parked. However the vehicles are classed into 4 different categories: “vintage” “mid-muscle” “modern-muscle” and 2 seater”. I was in mid-muscle. None of this mattered to me, as I had no competitive expectations and no lofty dreams of being anywhere near the top of any class or overall.
















Day1:

Run 1: Set front tires to 35psi and rears to 28psi. front struts to 4/5 tightness and rear shocks to 2/5.
- The car slid/pushed when entering the infield at one point, enough for me to go off course
- So I got a DNF but ran 60.510 seconds while figuring out the rest of the course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PplJKYXBPY


Run 2: lowered the front tire pressure to 32. Kept the rear psi and struts/shocks the same
- Decided to hold the car in 1st gear on the front stretch so I was on the rev limiter for a bit, but had more power in 1st gear in the infield. turned out to cause more sliding though
- Ran a 51.864
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EMn8JZDrgo


Break for other run groups to make laps

Run 3: Front tires re-set at 32 psi and rear set to 28. Softened front struts to 3/5 and kept rears at 2/5
- Tried leaving the car in 2nd gear and not shifting at all. Causing it to be slower in the infield, but less blazing of the tires. I got confused at the couse layout in corn-dog corner and didnt make the left in time.
- Ran a 54.121
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2xRlQtSaQM


Run 4: Front tires to 32.0 rear at 28.0 struts 3/5 shocks 2/5
- 1st gear and 2nd gear on the track and then downshifted to 1st gear for the infield. Tires can’t grip when heavy on the throttle in 1st so I ran through some infield cones again. decided to stay in 2nd gear from now on
- Got a DNF but ran a 54.148
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBM-J_vUqYY


Run 5: Lowered front struts to 2/5 rears at 2/5 also tire pressure same
- Clean run, no cones. 50.322
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWh2-9g8dhg


Break for lunch and other run groups to make laps. Burgers and lunch stuff provided by UMI


Run 6: 30psi front and 28 psi rear
- BTK joined me for a ride along (after I just did a ride along in his car moments prior). He told me that I certainly need to be more quick and demanding with my steering inputs. Left it in 2nd gear for the whole run.
- My best run of the day, but apparently, I hit a cone that both he and I didn’t realize I hit, so yea
- 48.670 with +1 cone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyMZNUC4BnM



Chatted with a lot of people throughout the day and talked to them about my options for better tires. Talked to the guys at Thurn-One steering about my previous power steering pump issues and they had some recommendations for me in case my current (new) setup with the new pump and the new cooler gave me any problems this event or in the future. Which it didn’t!! but it was good to talk to them about future upgrades and such. Went back to the hotel for a shower and then back to the track for food from the food trucks, groups of people hanging out partying, a live country singer, fire pit, etc. This part of the event drew a good amount of locals from the community so that was good for the track and for business. Ryan’s sister (Ryan is the owner of UMI and UMI Motorsports park) took us for a wildly exciting thrill ride(s) through the 86 acre property on one of the tracks ATV’s.


Day 2, Saturday.

Run 7: Front tires 30 rears 27.5 shocks struts left the same at 2/5 and 2/5
- Car pushed straight when I wanted to turn right, right after the infield loop. so BTK instructed me how to take this corner better and I am glad to have listen to him.
- Ran a 50.548 with +2 cones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxC0_PqKLXc


Run 8: no changes to tires or shocks
- Clean run, no cones, I just get impatient while “lugging” through the infield at low rpms in 2nd gear.. but that keeps the car from sliding around and from blazing the tires loose so it’s the best manner to navigate the infield by.
- Ran a 50.517 clean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Q5ZxhQnT8


Break


Run 9: no changes, clean run minor sliding, still nose diving though.
- Ran a 50.320
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7rwMHhrvA

Run 10: 31 psi front, 28 psi rear shocks struts still the same 2/5 and 2/5
- Growing frustrated at the nosediving all weekend, I decided to crank up (in) the rear brake line proportioning valve 1 full turn. This seemed to help a bit actually.
- Ran a 48.767 finally under 50.00 !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmcy331tel0



Break for lunch


Run 11: tires and shocks the same, added a more turn in on the prop-valve.
- Slid into the cone wall just approaching corndog corner, I think it was just me being too aggressive, and not the cars fault. you can see the cone-person flee for safety as I drift towards him!
- Got a DNF with a 57.376 time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZS8j8ibAGo


Run 12: tires and shocks same BTK came along for the ride again
- 48.537 clean run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtYkEzW4X3I



Break


Run 13: Front tires 30 psi rear 28 psi lowered both the front and rear struts/shocks to 1/5
- 48.517 clean run and my best run of the weekend.
My GoPro battery died 6 seconds into this run, so there is no video of it.



Had a much better second day than Day 1. Finished a little lower than I expected to finish when I arrived at the event. Would have liked to be in the top 80 or so, but live and learn. The track’s computer timing program seemed to have a glitch, that even though my correct times are displayed in the details when you click my name/number, the statistics show me finishing in 75th place with a time of 46.387 , right below Val Pichette and Brian Coyle. Now, Obviously anyone and everyone knows that is completely outlandish and impossible. If I take my best time of 48.517 (run 13) and find where that fits into the list, it puts me directly below our buddy and pal BonzoHansen (Scott Applegate) who was just 0.042 seconds faster than me). I am content with that. Packed up the hot car with my tremendous amount of gear and watched the awards ceremony. Afterwards, headed out for the ride home.

















The ride home was super smooth sailing aside from one single mechanical issue; hot fuel tank. I have had an issue before with heat/pressure in the tank, but it never had caused the pump to shut off. So, I was about 45 minutes into the ride home and everything was perfect. All gauges had great readings. I had the converter locked and I was cruising on rt 80 when all of a sudden I felt a stumble and looked at the gauges to see the AFR go way lean just as the motor shut off. I coasted to the “shoulder” which was pretty tight at this stretch of roadway. Tried to crank it, but no fire up. Started thinking and learned the fuel pump wasn’t “priming” when I put the key on. Hilariously, that fuel pressure gauge I had installed at the sniper last week, (and subsequently REMOVED because it was leaking just two days prior to leaving for UMI) would have come in super freaking handy at this moment int time!!! Anyways I cracked open the fuel feed line fitting at the sniper and didn’t have good fuel pressure. I then thought, hmm, lets open the gas cap. It opened with a huge blast of super hot vapor. Hot as in real hot. As I left het cap off for the tank to breathe, I got under the car and felt the tank, and it was scalding hot. I also noticed that my muffler and the heat shield were pressed really tight together and also seemed to be really close, if not touching the fuel tank. I am certain the muffler heat soaked the tank and fuel and pump. I also opened the trunk and felt the carpet on the trunk’s hump and it was way hot. I let it cool down for 7-8 minutes and tried again. It fired up and ran. I took the next exit and got some fresh fuel and had zero problems the rest of the trip. I am thinking the heat soak from the day of track action and the weight of all my gear in the trunk was the cause, as even though I have had fuel tank pressure before, it has never been this excessive with pressure and heat.







The highway driving and normal road driving with this car is phenomenal. The engine loves to run between 179-185 on the highway, and with the converter locked it does 80-82 mph at 2,400 rpms. Trans temp stays right at 160 deg. According to my “learn values” on the sniper data the tune is really on point for drivability. I plan on looking at the datalogs from the autocross later on this week and that will help me refine my AE acceleration enrichment based on the TPS RoC and other values that I see. Its probably really close to perfect, but I will examine the data. Then I plan on locking in the learn limits of the tune file and calling it good.


All in all, a super fun weekend and event. 529 miles of driving with 2 days of autocross action. It is one of my car highlight events for the year.




I am working on compiling the 10-12 video clips I took into a single video, but having problems with the computer still.
-There will be official re-cap videos and photos coming from UMI and other media outlets, I'll probably post those in the separate UMI thread I created.
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:07 PM   #139
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UMI puts on a nice event and glad you enjoyed yourself while improving throughout your days there. Sounds like the car performed well with minimal issues outside of your issue on the trip home so that's a great testament to the work you have put in.

I look forward to the eventual pics/vids and hearing from others who attended. Hopefully next year I'll be able to attend.

One last comment, with all the detail you covered for each day/run, shame on Scott and Bill for not making you drink more.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:34 PM   #140
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agreed, bls. Great read!
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:29 PM   #141
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Dave, you sure you have that tank vented properly?

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One last comment, with all the detail you covered for each day/run, shame on Scott and Bill for not making you drink more.
1) Dave is much nicer than us lol
2) we tried, but he and Joe were both teetotaling this weekend.
3) Billy and I probably made sure we drank their share too.
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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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Old 07-29-2020, 05:21 PM   #142
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Ha. Yea. So this year I changed up my routine and decided no drinking, period. So it was bizarre when I woke up wide awake at 4:30am on Friday morning, and then on Saturday morning I had a splitting headache until lunch time. I was like, damn I didn’t even drink a drop of booze, and this is what I get!! Oh well.


So regarding the vented gas tank. I’ve looked into this a little bit over the years and occasionally I’ve had hot fuel vapor come out of the tank after a really long drives. But it was never ever in the 20 years that I’ve owned this car to the point where the pump stopped working. I do not have a vented gas cap but I do have a working check ball breather under the car. In fact I have one on the car and one on my part shelf in both of them I have disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled. I’ve always thought that the vented gas cap was to let air in so the gas tank didn’t suck itself in. I thought the evap canister was for pressure. However neither was to help with heat and fuel boiling, correct? I mean if a simple vented gas cap would alleviate future issues, I’ll certainly do that. However this is the same gas cap that has been on the car since way prior to me owning it, and I e had it for 20.5 years now.


https://flic.kr/p/2jrb5dJ

https://flic.kr/p/2jr716Q
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:25 PM   #143
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Evap line should vent it. Did you cap it?

Are you running a fuel return line? If so how's it run?
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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop

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Old 07-29-2020, 10:38 PM   #144
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yea, evap line is capped (folded over and crimped) since I removed the charcoal canister this winter. I have no interest in putting in an evap system either. especially nothing ugly and under the hood. perhaps something like a canister filled with that activated charcoal mounted near the tank above the axle, but that just sounds ugly and sloppy. and I tend to avoid stuff like that.

yes, running a -6 return line from the sniper unit directly back into the tank's oem style return line. the -6 connects to the oem return line just above the tanks bulkhead. I think I have a photo somewhere on my other "car buildup thread" edit: found it: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4605/...018864e3_z.jpg
the -8 is feed line, the -6 is return. the other is evap and its not been capped right by the axle, and the 4th one is for the vent-valve/rollover acorn thing.
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Old 07-30-2020, 04:52 AM   #145
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I left mine open to atmosphere with a basic small inline carb fuel filter. That other thing sounds like the rollover valve.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:50 AM   #146
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^^^do that and see if it changes the issue. Or if you can get a vented cap for that tank. Or drill a few small holes in the one you have.

A pricey way to do it is this: https://www.iimuch.com/collections/f...erential-vents
Guys swear by these, no gas smells in their garages that an open vent often allows.

On the return, when the early EFI swap guys were on the power tour in the early 2000s, many had hot fuel issues due to returns from the engine. it was causing fuel pump cavitation. that is when the corvette fuel filter with the regulator came into vogue. Note Chevy doesn't return hot fuel back to the tank.

OEs do things for reasons.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:06 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
^^^do that and see if it changes the issue. Or if you can get a vented cap for that tank. Or drill a few small holes in the one you have.

A pricey way to do it is this: https://www.iimuch.com/collections/f...erential-vents
Guys swear by these, no gas smells in their garages that an open vent often allows.

On the return, when the early EFI swap guys were on the power tour in the early 2000s, many had hot fuel issues due to returns from the engine. it was causing fuel pump cavitation. that is when the corvette fuel filter with the regulator came into vogue. Note Chevy doesn't return hot fuel back to the tank.

OEs do things for reasons.
Prior to that vette setup they did. Don't recall reading of issues with stock stuff

My pump pulls a vac on my fuel tank with just one 6an vent line, so next tank iteration will def have a larger vent in place. Along with a fuel return submerged.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:21 AM   #148
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I left mine open to atmosphere with a basic small inline carb fuel filter. That other thing sounds like the rollover valve.
Ditto and I honestly only get a whiff of gas in the garage after a fill-up which subsides quickly.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:28 AM   #149
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dont know if itll be any help, but my fuel system has the feed line to the front, the return port capped and the vent port vented to atmosphere with a small breather on the end. Ive ran that set up the whole time and never had any issues, nor any fumes in the garage.

but i dont drive it nearly as much as you.
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:13 AM   #150
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Prior to that vette setup they did. Don't recall reading of issues with stock stuff

My pump pulls a vac on my fuel tank with just one 6an vent line, so next tank iteration will def have a larger vent in place. Along with a fuel return submerged.
4th gen f bodies don't, at least LS cars. They got away from it in general for a reason. Nonetheless swap guys definitely had that issue on long hot rides - like 1+ hour summer rides
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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop

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