New Commodore

[WildBillyT]

It does. 6 speed.

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

not RWD V8 4-door cars, not comparable to me.

So you want gm to go back to reskinning a chassis into every flavor possible? I think the regal had awd but not anymore and isn't offered with the turbo Confirm with your local bigpal. Anyways, how large of a market is there for a gas guzzling v8 4 door with mediocre styling and interior trim? We aren't talking luxury here like the germans, just a hopped up motor in a day to day car.

Originally Posted by PolarBear

I don't think the Regal has a manual either. I just looked

I've personally seen a bigpal ruin one

Regal Turbo ups the ante with a 2.0L ECOTEC 4-cylinder intercooled turbocharged engine featuring direct cylinder fuel injection. A technological marvel, its dual-scroll turbo technology delivers 220 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque along with an EPA-est. 20 city/32 hwy mpg with manual transmission. Plus, Regal Turbo offers an available Interactive Drive Control System with real-time suspension damping that you won't find on the Acura TSX or the VW CC.

[Mike]

I wasn't thinking gm. Find ANY sedans between 40 and 50k. With 425+ hp and a stick. Once we have that list we can delve back into how cool of a car the SS will end up being.

[Mike]

Srt8 charger and Audi s6 are both auto, no offering at all from ford

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

So you want gm to go back to reskinning a chassis into every flavor possible? I think the regal had awd but not anymore and isn't offered with the turbo Confirm with your local bigpal. Anyways, how large of a market is there for a gas guzzling v8 4 door with mediocre styling and interior trim? We aren't talking luxury here like the germans, just a hopped up motor in a day to day car.

No, and that is my thought process here. people saying no stick in this car is a deal breaker, as if otherwise they’d buy this car. But how many comparable cars offer manuals? what I am seeing here is slim to none. I just don’t see a small car or a 2 door as the typical comparable. I don’t think the regal shopper is the same as the SS shopper, and I’d really be hard pressed to think the gear box is a primary decision point between the two. I’m sure there are a very few folks out there, I mean more in general.

So I don’t see no stick in the SS being a failure in the big picture. So I am probably siding with GayAl in all this.


aside: you mentioned the cruze, lol @ that. I have a cruze ltz. there is no way that car is comparable to a G8 in any driving sense.

[Featherburner]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

EXACTLY. People have become complacent, the main thing anyone driving a vehicle should be concerned with is that, Driving, NOTHING else. Driving manual transmission forces the driver to think about what he/she is doing more than with an Auto.

Originally Posted by maroman88

i gotta agree with one point at least... driving stick does make you pay attention to the road way more then in an auto, if u gotta shift u cant be distracted with other things in your hands... texting, eating....

These two statements are the opposite of the truth! While you are using a certain percent of your concentration bank on shifting, someone with an auto can use that percentage on figuring out an avoidance maneuver. You guys crash and the auto driver is home having dinner with their family!

[NastyEllEssWon]

I don't see the lack of a manual transmission in this car as big of a problem as how bland and outwardly plain this car is when you think its supposed to be a 4 door flagship sedan. Since this car is so closely related in the same generation (as per Al's information) as the G8, those that want a manual should probably buy one of those, since there was a manual offered iirc.

i just wish this car looked just as beastly as whats under the hood. I just cant see spending 30-40 grand on a car that im going to want to spend another 5 grand just in parts to make the front end look like i want it to look, with another 5 grand minimal in paint. i am however digging the new charger though

[Mike]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

I don't see the lack of a manual transmission in this car as big of a problem as how bland and outwardly plain this car is when you think its supposed to be a 4 door flagship sedan. Since this car is so closely related in the same generation (as per Al's information) as the G8, those that want a manual should probably buy one of those, since there was a manual offered iirc.

i just wish this car looked just as beastly as whats under the hood. I just cant see spending 30-40 grand on a car that im going to want to spend another 5 grand just in parts to make the front end look like i want it to look, with another 5 grand minimal in paint. i am however digging the new charger though

if i was currently in the market for a 4 door sport sedan, it would be a charger at THIS moment. there are already rumors however of a lsa powered m6 ss with "more agressive" body styling to follow this year.

even if the lsa part is false, i can easily see the m6 and body changes coming... didnt the gxp follow the rest of the g8s by a year?

[donnj]

"GayAl" now were getting somewhere on this thread....

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

No, and that is my thought process here. people saying no stick in this car is a deal breaker, as if otherwise they’d buy this car. But how many comparable cars offer manuals? what I am seeing here is slim to none. I just don’t see a small car or a 2 door as the typical comparable. I don’t think the regal shopper is the same as the SS shopper, and I’d really be hard pressed to think the gear box is a primary decision point between the two. I’m sure there are a very few folks out there, I mean more in general.

So I don’t see no stick in the SS being a failure in the big picture. So I am probably siding with GayAl in all this.


aside: you mentioned the cruze, lol @ that. I have a cruze ltz. there is no way that car is comparable to a G8 in any driving sense.

You know your cruze is a beast!

[BonzoHansen]

it's very nice and yet underwhelming. lol

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Mike

if i was currently in the market for a 4 door sport sedan, it would be a charger at THIS moment. there are already rumors however of a lsa powered m6 ss with "more agressive" body styling to follow this year.

even if the lsa part is false, i can easily see the m6 and body changes coming... didnt the gxp follow the rest of the g8s by a year?

an lsa version with some body panels would put it up there pretty high in price but certainly sounds like something i wouldnt mind taking a loot at

[Mike]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

an lsa version with some body panels would put it up there pretty high in price but certainly sounds like something i wouldnt mind taking a loot at

It would put it in the 50s. Any higher and they will encroach the ctsv

[Slow-V6]

Didnt the GTO when it came out in 04 look plain and bland? They waited a year to change it up to a more aggressive look and the car still tanked. Hope this isnt the case with this one. A could more aggressive looking changes and this thing would sell. The G8's sold very well as they had an aggressive look to them. I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

Didnt the GTO when it came out in 04 look plain and bland? They waited a year to change it up to a more aggressive look and the car still tanked. Hope this isnt the case with this one. A could more aggressive looking changes and this thing would sell. The G8's sold very well as they had an aggressive look to them. I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..

Yep.

'04 GTO came out and everybody bitched about the stying. They threw on the hood scoops and dual exhaust (and LS2) but it still did not do well.

In GM's defense thought (and Al will correct me I'm sure) I seem to remember them only having 9 mos - 1 year to convert the car over from Aussie to USA spec. That's not a lot of time to do everything right.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

Didnt the GTO when it came out in 04 look plain and bland? They waited a year to change it up to a more aggressive look and the car still tanked. Hope this isnt the case with this one. A could more aggressive looking changes and this thing would sell. The G8's sold very well as they had an aggressive look to them. I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..

The gto sales were picking up when the car died. It died because that generation of Holden ended.

Do you have documentation that g8 sold better specifically because of the aggressive look?

[townsend]

ford should now bring the falcon to the us too, then we could really have some fun. nonetheless, i like the new ss, and if i had that thing called credit i would definately buy one

[Featherburner]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..

Nope, late in the 09 run is when the GXP hit the market.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Mike

The gto sales were picking up when the car died. It died because that generation of Holden ended.

Do you have documentation that g8 sold better specifically because of the aggressive look?

Sold better then what? The GTO? Then yeah I would say the reason it sold better then the GTO was because it looked more aggressive from the start. It caught your eye while driving. I dont have proof, but the car did sell well for the 2 years it was alive.

This new car doesnt catch my eye at all.

The G8's sold almost 40,000 cars in the 2 years of production. 1st year was from Mar-Dec and they sold 15,000 and in 09 they sold almost 24,000 cars. Not to bad.

[Mike]

I was asking if you had evidence to back up your comment that the g8 sold well because of appearance

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

Sold better then what? The GTO? Then yeah I would say the reason it sold better then the GTO was because it looked more aggressive from the start. It caught your eye while driving. I dont have proof, but the car did sell well for the 2 years it was alive.

This new car doesnt catch my eye at all.

The G8's sold almost 40,000 cars in the 2 years of production. 1st year was from Mar-Dec and they sold 15,000 and in 09 they sold almost 24,000 cars. Not to bad.

GTO's total run for the 3 years was 40,808 with only one engine available each year. Would the G8 sales numbers still be better if you were only counting GT / GXP sales?

I won't argue that buyers wanted something more aggressive looking (I read somewhere that the hood scoops on the '05 GTO were actually an option and only about 25 out of 11,000 were ordered without them).

::edit::

'08 GT - 6,143
'09 GT - 16,486
'09 GXP - 1,829

Total V8 G8s = 24,458 (12,229 per year average)
Total GTOs = 40,808 (13,602 per year average)

- Justin

[Mike]

So the gto actually sold more. Cool.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Mike

So the gto actually sold more. Cool.

The GTO had a 3 year run and the G8's had a 2 year run. The G8's sold 38,XXX cars in those 2 years and the GTO's sold 40,XXX cars in its 3 years.

Its GM's own fault they didnt offer engine options for the GTO's. Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore. They had a shot at making a bad ass car that looked bad ass and they blew it. Think they thought that a GTO should be a V8 and thats it. Dont know how many people would have bought a V6 GTO? Even in the 60's-70's were there V6 GTO's?

[Mike]

Compare apples to apples and take the v6 cars out.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

The GTO had a 3 year run and the G8's had a 2 year run. The G8's sold 38,XXX cars in those 2 years and the GTO's sold 40,XXX cars in its 3 years.

Its GM's own fault they didnt offer engine options for the GTO's. Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore. They had a shot at making a bad ass car that looked bad ass and they blew it. Think they thought that a GTO should be a V8 and thats it. Dont know how many people would have bought a V6 GTO? Even in the 60's-70's were there V6 GTO's?

No. There were no V6 GTOs. They started as a performance trim for the Tempest, then became its own car. It was V8 only and never had a V6.

GTO, G8, and now SS all look "tame" because they aren't designed to appeal to 15 year old kids. Hell, the 04-06 GTO was a gift to car guys so that GM had something affordable in the performance segment, something that could help alter Pontiac's image away from the body-cladding and nostril company.