New Commodore - Page 8 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

WildBillyT · 02-25-2013, 10:53 PM

Al, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the GTO rushed as hell too? Like 9 months to convert the Holden over for US duty?

PolarBear · 02-25-2013, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore.

Not really

BigAls87Z28 · 02-26-2013, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Al, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the GTO rushed as hell too? Like 9 months to convert the Holden over for US duty?

I don't know if you would call it rushed, but it wasn't very long from when Bob Lutz said go to when the first Monaros started rolling into Long Beach. It was never planned on coming to the US. It wasn't until Lutz wanted to bring something over from Australia did people start to wonder if it could happen.

Lutz wanted to see how fast GM could get a car from one side of the planet, certified for US emissions and crash standards, and on the market.
Remember that while the GTO only sold 13k a year here, they only sold about 1.3k in Australia and maybe another 5k elsewhere around the world. By American standards, it was a "flop" because it didn't sell in high five or six digit numbers.

G8 was designed and spec'ed to come to the US. The crash standards, the different guide lines, all that was baked into the VE chassis because of the "success" of the GTO. Holden was given a billion dollar budget to build its own chassis predicated on the fact that it would be sold here in the US. It felt like it took less time because when development started in 2005, so when the last GTO rolled in in 06, the first G8 was only two years behind.

GM now wanted to wait till VF came so that they didn't have any issues and could once again build up the car to appeal to American markets. Face it, if the G8 was brought out today, it wouldn't stack up to the likes of Charger much less anything sporty from Europe.
Just look at the advances made with Camaro and all the changes they have done since 2010.

The market for large V8 powered sedans isn't exactly booming, so to see GM even bothering with this vehicle can be viewed as them being up to their old tricks. You could even get upset with the fact that the Australian people are subsidizing the cost of the SS here so that they can preserve a few jobs back home. The equivalent SS in Australia will sell over 60k while we will get one near 40k.

Either way, it will sell in the 5-10k units they want it to, it will be a desirable vehicle once GM stops producing it, and then people will praise it for how GM used to offer affordable rear-drive V8 sedans while screaming at them for only offering turbo 4 econoboxes.
Same ****, different year.

sweetbmxrider · 02-26-2013, 07:19 AM

that last bit is so true

Jersey Mike · 02-26-2013, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Face it, if the G8 was brought out today, it wouldn't stack up to the likes of Charger much less anything sporty from Europe.

While I do like the G8 a lot, I think you're right with this statement.

Tru2Chevy · 02-26-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore. They had a shot at making a bad ass car that looked bad ass and they blew it. Think they thought that a GTO should be a V8 and thats it. Dont know how many people would have bought a V6 GTO? Even in the 60's-70's were there V6 GTO's?

Care to explain that first sentence?

IMHO, GTO was the only name brought back from the muscle car years that GM actually did right by. As Al said, there were no v6 GTOs. GTO started life as a plain jane family car (Tempest / LeMans) with a big-ass engine and a few other performance doo-dads thrown into the mix. It wasn't some new, wild looking car back then, and when they brought it back they did the same thing.

- Justin

BonzoHansen · 02-26-2013, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jersey Mike

While I do like the G8 a lot, I think you're right with this statement.

I dunno, i think the new charger it fugly, as was the old one. G8 looks way better to me.

WildBillyT · 02-26-2013, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I dunno, i think the new charger it fugly, as was the old one. G8 looks way better to me.

Yep. I think by the time it hit Pontiac was already swirling the drain. It never had a chance.

Jersey Mike · 02-26-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I dunno, i think the new charger it fugly, as was the old one. G8 looks way better to me.

But do you think you're in the majority?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Yep. I think by the time it hit Pontiac was already swirling the drain. It never had a chance.

I agree with you that Pontiac was already on it's way down, but I just think that if the G8 was out today it wouldn't be able to compete in sales with everything else that's out there in the $30-$40k segment. Performance will only get you so far before "perception" takes over--enter Euros & Charger's muscle car/"Hemi" badges.

NastyEllEssWon · 02-26-2013, 03:01 PM

As of right now the charger is the nicest v8 american sedan on the market. i dont see how anyone cant like it. its aggressive and still classy...plus im a sucker for wall to wall rear tail lamps. I understand all the hoopla about chevy rwd and big cars blah blah blah but theres still no reason to make it even plainer than my saturn ion looks. even my gf thought it was pretty crappy looking (new ss).

BonzoHansen · 02-26-2013, 03:08 PM

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.

am I in the majority? don't care. but none of my friends other than chevelle jon like it. and he is silly.

BurninrubberGT · 02-26-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore.

huh?

NastyEllEssWon · 02-26-2013, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.

am I in the majority? don't care. but none of my friends other than chevelle jon like it. and he is silly.

as bad as the charger is, you can't seriously say that the chevy is even marginally better.

BonzoHansen · 02-26-2013, 04:08 PM

No, I am referring to the comment “if the G8 was brought out today, it wouldn't stack up to the likes of Charger”.

I have not seen a Chevy SS in person to have an opinion yet.

PolarBear · 02-26-2013, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.

Featherburner · 02-26-2013, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.

am I in the majority? don't care. but none of my friends other than chevelle jon like it. and he is silly.

I agree but, I'm kind of bias!

sweetbmxrider · 02-26-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

As of right now the charger is the nicest v8 american sedan on the market. i dont see how anyone cant like it. its aggressive and still classy...plus im a sucker for wall to wall rear tail lamps. I understand all the hoopla about chevy rwd and big cars blah blah blah but theres still no reason to make it even plainer than my saturn ion looks. even my gf thought it was pretty crappy looking (new ss).

You and I both know its a Chrysler product. That's reason enough to run the **** away

And I can say without hesitation that a cts-v is a much nicer american v8 sedan.

NastyEllEssWon · 02-26-2013, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

You and I both know its a Chrysler product. That's reason enough to run the **** away

And I can say without hesitation that a cts-v is a much nicer american v8 sedan.

CTS-V's arent bad but i like the look of the charger and the lumina ss better. not to mention its probably like 15-20k out of my price range. i havent looked at any v's but i would imagine theyd start out around 50k, when you get into that price range a large other cars come into mind that i'd rather spend 50 grand on. 30 to low/mid 40s would be about the area im looking to stay, if i go any higher than that I might as well say screw utility and get a vette.

maroman88 · 02-26-2013, 08:44 PM

comparing a G8 to the new charger? i still think the G8 wins, although ive only been in police packaged chargers lol, the new charger is nice, and i LOVE the taillights, but i doubt its better over all then a G8

Mike · 02-26-2013, 08:45 PM

Comparing a v to the charger? Lol

PolarBear · 02-26-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

start out around 50k,

The V starts over 60k

NastyEllEssWon · 02-26-2013, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarBear

The V starts over 60k

yeah well see there you go. no reason to even consider a v when its double my starting price range. honestly i didnt even think of a V series when considering a new car, probably because like mike is laughing about over there, theyre just not in the same category really.

i dont get the big hate on the charger? is there something im missing thats supposed to make them undesirable?

WildBillyT · 02-26-2013, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

yeah well see there you go. no reason to even consider a v when its double my starting price range. honestly i didnt even think of a V series when considering a new car, probably because like mike is laughing about over there, theyre just not in the same category really.

i dont get the big hate on the charger? is there something im missing thats supposed to make them undesirable?

Chrysler.

BigAls87Z28 · 02-26-2013, 10:05 PM

New Charger looks heads and shoulders above the last generation. Cleaner, sharper, better looking in every single department.
Charger has more upgrades on the inside that make the G8 obsolete. It's not design I was talking about, it's everything else. The Charger is a better product now than both the last gen Charger and G8 were then. Remove the G8's hood, and it looks like a really handsome and clean look. The SS shares just about every single body line, but this time gets a really nice hood.

coolmanvette75 · 02-26-2013, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Care to explain that first sentence?

IMHO, GTO was the only name brought back from the muscle car years that GM actually did right by. As Al said, there were no v6 GTOs. GTO started life as a plain jane family car (Tempest / LeMans) with a big-ass engine and a few other performance doo-dads thrown into the mix. It wasn't some new, wild looking car back then, and when they brought it back they did the same thing.

- Justin

I agree with this. GTO, whether you like it or not, really did stick to its roots. Cheap, simple, and fast. Think about it. New Charger, 4 door heap. New Dart, 4 cylinder eco box. New Challenger, underpowered and over weight compared to its 60s/70s counterpart. Chrysler has failed miserably thus far at bringing names back.