Tell me what u guys think

[supercharged Lt4]

ok. heres the deal. i just got a 99 formula. im DEFINATLEY building the motor, but heres what i got so far...i was gunna do the Weiland intake, or the BBK SSL-Series manifold, Send my heads out to have them done (or should i just get the Ls6 heads?) 1.7 ratio rocker arms, Hooker headers w/ SLP cats, and Loud Mouth, MSD ignition..Now, i want to do a cam, but i have no idea what size or what brand. this is where i need your help. If any of you have any do's or dont's please let me know, im open for any and all ideas, thanks alot

[9secfirebird]

gimmie a call up untill midnight at 9085811221, maybe i can help. its way to much to type

[NJSPEEDER]

call TTP in clifton about their equalizer head and cam packages. for a lot less money and in a lot less time you will be flying.
i can't find their number right now, but someone can post it up.

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by supercharged Lt4

ok. heres the deal. i just got a 99 formula. im DEFINATLEY building the motor, but heres what i got so far...i was gunna do the Weiland intake, or the BBK SSL-Series manifold, Send my heads out to have them done (or should i just get the Ls6 heads?) 1.7 ratio rocker arms, Hooker headers w/ SLP cats, and Loud Mouth, MSD ignition..Now, i want to do a cam, but i have no idea what size or what brand. this is where i need your help. If any of you have any do's or dont's please let me know, im open for any and all ideas, thanks alot

I'm no expert with these cars, but your car is eerily similar to mine. Anyway, when I bought my car most of the mods were done already by the previous owner, but here's the list and I know its a tried and true combo that in full on dragstrip mode has gone 11.54 @ 119 all motor naturally aspirated and is fully compliant with the smog nazi's and still pulls 20mpg. I have yet to duplicate the 11.54 @ 119 from the previous owner, but I will once I get hooked up and loosen the suspension up.

Stage 2 heads from Cartek
MTB cam
Lift (Intake) Lift (Exhaust)
.558 .558
Duration (Intake) Duration (Exhaust) Lobe Separation
221 221 114
LS6 Intake
Ported Throttle body
Ram Air Box
3.73 gears

This combo put 416hp to the wheels at Cartek.

Again, I can't offer any specific advice other than here is my combo and the numbers the car puts down.

Hope it helps....
Chris

[foff667]

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

I'm no expert with these cars, but your car is eerily similar to mine. Anyway, when I bought my car most of the mods were done already by the previous owner, but here's the list and I know its a tried and true combo that in full on dragstrip mode has gone 11.54 @ 119 all motor naturally aspirated and is fully compliant with the smog nazi's and still pulls 20mpg. I have yet to duplicate the 11.54 @ 119 from the previous owner, but I will once I get hooked up and loosen the suspension up.

Stage 2 heads from Cartek
MTB cam
Lift (Intake) Lift (Exhaust)
.558 .558
Duration (Intake) Duration (Exhaust) Lobe Separation
221 221 114
LS6 Intake
Ported Throttle body
Ram Air Box
3.73 gears

This combo put 416hp to the wheels at Cartek.

Again, I can't offer any specific advice other than here is my combo and the numbers the car puts down.

Hope it helps....
Chris

wonder what #'s it would put up with some real tuning

[foff667]

Originally Posted by supercharged Lt4

ok. heres the deal. i just got a 99 formula. im DEFINATLEY building the motor, but heres what i got so far...i was gunna do the Weiland intake, or the BBK SSL-Series manifold, Send my heads out to have them done (or should i just get the Ls6 heads?) 1.7 ratio rocker arms, Hooker headers w/ SLP cats, and Loud Mouth, MSD ignition..Now, i want to do a cam, but i have no idea what size or what brand. this is where i need your help. If any of you have any do's or dont's please let me know, im open for any and all ideas, thanks alot

I would say
LS6 intake
tr224/114 cam
4.10 gears
LT headers no cats & a cutout in the Ipipe
tuning
=11's with traction.

thats assuming its an m6

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by foff667

wonder what #'s it would put up with some real tuning

I have always wondered since I bought the car, what exactly was done to the computer other than shutting off codes? I'd be interested in have it looked at if only so I could get a baseline as to what was done. Does that sound reasonable. You are literally down the street from where I live.

Chris

[foff667]

I get home at 5pm usually...if you can make it over roughly at that time give my cell a call before 4pm to let me know 609-947-0281. FWIW i was ORIGONALLY tuned by cartek & wasnt happy with anything that was done. Ended up having them flash my stock tune back in and starting over on my own.

[NJSPEEDER]

the part that bill is leaving out is that with in 20mins of starting to tune a car for the fist time ever he had it running better than any of the 3 trips he made all the way to cartek from trenton ever could.
his next trip to the track he was i believe about a tenth quicker and about 2mph faster through teh traps as well.

[foff667]

it was 2 tenths quicker & ~1mph faster in 40* warmer weather...august heat compared to aprils 50-60* daily weather.

[JW]

Yea I am not a fan of Cartek either.

JW

[Batman]

Cartek is junk with tuning.

My suggestions:
LS6 intake
Ported stock T/B
224-230 cam with a 112-114LSA, no split
Air lid
Kooks Longtubes W/CATS (The LS1 cars run alot better with Cats, unless it is race only I would keep them.
good Cat back (Magnaflow is my suggestion, I had LM and the Mag put down 12 more RWH and didn't make your ears bleed)
Nice set of Stage II heads ( I suggest Rapid Motorsports or AFR)
NGK TR55 plugs
Good spark plug wires
4.10 gears for a M6 and 3.73 for an A4
Get your car tuned!

Things I would not do:
-Aluminum intake (weiland and BBK) No gain over an LS6 unless you port it and it holds more heat then the LS6 one does.
-You already have 1.7 Rockers, 1.8's I would stay away from, most of them have clearance issues with the valve covers
-MSD ignition - unless you are planning an all out race motor there is no reason to shell out $600+ for MSD coils and then another big chunck of change for the tuner. Stock Gen III Ignitions are awesome and don't need much help.

Bigger isn't always better with an LS1, I have about 20 different setups on mine and I was busting up heads/cam cars with just a cam and 4.10's ( a small cam at that. Do your research and decide if you want the all out track car or a killer street machine.

[Batman]

PS- i would also invest heavily in a good rear suspension, makes all the difference.

[foff667]

I met up with chris at his house...basically the didnt touch his powerenrichment mode fueling, didnt delete COT even though I think there were no cats on the car at the time of the tune, didnt touch the ve table, they copied the high octane to the low octane so no long term knock protection, they pulled ~3* of timing in the high octane table from stock, setup the iat adder to pull lots of timing as compared to stock & then just used the maf as the only fuel adjuster. I dunno how far off the tune is but i would think theres a good amount left in the car as it stands.

[foff667]

Originally Posted by Batman

Cartek is junk with tuning.

My suggestions:
LS6 intake
Ported stock T/B
224-230 cam with a 112-114LSA, no split
Air lid
Kooks Longtubes W/CATS (The LS1 cars run alot better with Cats, unless it is race only I would keep them.
good Cat back (Magnaflow is my suggestion, I had LM and the Mag put down 12 more RWH and didn't make your ears bleed)
Nice set of Stage II heads ( I suggest Rapid Motorsports or AFR)
NGK TR55 plugs
Good spark plug wires
4.10 gears for a M6 and 3.73 for an A4
Get your car tuned!

Things I would not do:
-Aluminum intake (weiland and BBK) No gain over an LS6 unless you port it and it holds more heat then the LS6 one does.
-You already have 1.7 Rockers, 1.8's I would stay away from, most of them have clearance issues with the valve covers
-MSD ignition - unless you are planning an all out race motor there is no reason to shell out $600+ for MSD coils and then another big chunck of change for the tuner. Stock Gen III Ignitions are awesome and don't need much help.

Bigger isn't always better with an LS1, I have about 20 different setups on mine and I was busting up heads/cam cars with just a cam and 4.10's ( a small cam at that. Do your research and decide if you want the all out track car or a killer street machine.

but i would say stick with the stock heads...it will save you 2-3k in the long run considering afr's cost like 1800+installation...whereas cams can be installed without pulling the heads. There are many many cars in the 11's cam only and a few in the 10's...depends on how big of a cam you want to go/live with. Also I tend to say !cats...not sure what you meant by them running better with cats but you cant go nearly as lean on the a/f without killing them early.

[Batman]

I was talking stricty for street driving, efficiency and such, not all out performance (Having Cats). My mileage went down 7MPG just from deleting them and putting on Sims. BTW you have a PM

[NJSPEEDER]

that is because the default voltage that a lot of sims use will cause you to go rich. once you tune in the car for not having the cats there your mileage will usually go up noticably

[foff667]

7mpg? wow...i mean when i threw on my LT's no cats I maybe lost 1mpg that was with no tuning/sims nothing and I would assume that was just because of a heavier foot wanting to hear the car more. I definitly dont think I would attribute that to !cats alone...maybe a lazy o2 or something but even that might not hurt it that bad...my front o2 died on my gtp about 2 weeks ago now & I still was able to get the same mileage out of a tank as usual. Thats with the stock ve/maf/ofla tables.

[2MCHPWR]

I'm no tuning expert but here's my two cents why cartek tuned it that way:

Originally Posted by foff667

they pulled ~3* of timing in the high octane table from stock,

Cartek makes more power with less tuning. their ported heads are efficient and don't need a lot of timing. even with my current car, i was there when he tuned it, and each pull he lowered the timing and the car was making more and more power. its just what they do, so nuttin wrong with it i couldn't believe it either.

Originally Posted by foff667

setup the iat adder to pull lots of timing as compared to stock

They know i road raced the car, so they set it up very conservatively with anticipated 30 minute sessions on the track. thats a lot of abuse and a lot of heat generated, so he took the safe route. I can't complain about being too cautious when it comes to that type of stuff.

Originally Posted by foff667

then just used the maf as the only fuel adjuster.

they tune so that O2's are not read when car has mild to big cam. That is how they do it so the tune doeson't "learn out". Many tuners do this as well.

Originally Posted by foff667

I dunno how far off the tune is but i would think theres a good amount left in the car as it stands.

Considering the mild setup (small cam and older design heads), the HP #'s are stout and the drag strip performance is right on, considering the road race setup and full weight of the car, and only 1 day's practice with that setup (before the DS broke at the weld and ended the day early). There was probably an 11.3 in it and that is with ET streets; ET drags would have been better. 8)

I have no doubt that you can coax more power out of it with HP tuners, you are good at it and its a better tuning program than ls1edit.

[LS1LT1]

Originally Posted by Batman

Cartek is junk with tuning.

Oh really?
For the record my reliable, daily driven automatic Z28 with an internally BONE STOCK motor, naturally aspirated and with stock rear/gears and 'bolt ons' only ran an 11.8@113.6 with Cartek tuning.
More timing doesn't always equal more power.
And I can point out a whole list of other dead on reliable F-bodies, Corvettes and GTOs in the 11s, 10s, 9s and even 8s that are quite happy with that junk as well but there's really no need to go there.

[Tru2Chevy]

Lets not turn this into a pissing match about tunes. I'm sure that Cartek has plenty of happy customers, otherwise they wouldn't be in business any longer. The issue was that Bill got a tune from them that was not safely streetable, and didn't seem to make any real improvements, and they couldn't seem to fix it or offer even a partial refund.

He had them return it to stock, and he had the car idling and driving better than with their tune in less than one hour. After a few more tweaks (with stock timing and fuel tables, IIRC) he had gone quicker and faster in the 1/4 mile on a ~30* warmer day with no other changes.

Again, I'm glad that you guys are happy with your experiences at Cartek, however in this case they did not do a good job, and they didn't offer to continue trying to fix it or offer any compensation. For that reason only I would stay away....

- Justin

[LS1LT1]

Oh I know, and while I was actually there with Bill for one of his visits/tunes I wasn't there for the rest of it so I can't say for sure but I do agree that it does look like he didn't quite receive Cartek's usual impeccable workmanship/tuning.
Just responding to what appears to be some mass, blanket statements that are NOT entirely true.

[foff667]

Originally Posted by 2MCHPWR

Cartek makes more power with less tuning. their ported heads are efficient and don't need a lot of timing. even with my current car, i was there when he tuned it, and each pull he lowered the timing and the car was making more and more power. its just what they do, so nuttin wrong with it i couldn't believe it either.

thats great, I was just giving an observation.

Originally Posted by 2MCHPWR

They know i road raced the car, so they set it up very conservatively with anticipated 30 minute sessions on the track. thats a lot of abuse and a lot of heat generated, so he took the safe route. I can't complain about being too cautious when it comes to that type of stuff.

They've done this to all 3 of the tunes ive seen...yours was the only one that was road raced...the other two were mine & Jim's car which neither were roadraced...its a blanketed thing they do in their tuning from what I can see not because you roadrace.

Originally Posted by 2MCHPWR

they tune so that O2's are not read when car has mild to big cam. That is how they do it so the tune doeson't "learn out". Many tuners do this as well.

reread what I said...they only used the MAF for tuning...i didnt say they touched the o2's cuz in your old car scott they didnt...they didnt cut them...they still use them in your combo what im saying is instead of touching cot, pe, ve they used ONLY the MAF for tuning fueling. The O2's are still active which is why he was able to pass emissions in his case.

Originally Posted by 2MCHPWR

Considering the mild setup (small cam and older design heads), the HP #'s are stout and the drag strip performance is right on, considering the road race setup and full weight of the car, and only 1 day's practice with that setup (before the DS broke at the weld and ended the day early). There was probably an 11.3 in it and that is with ET streets; ET drags would have been better. 8)

I have no doubt that you can coax more power out of it with HP tuners, you are good at it and its a better tuning program than ls1edit.

I honestly don't know if I could get more out of it...maybe it is maxed. I was honest with Chris in that his tune may be spot on and Im sure as hell not going to ask anyone for money just because. I've always said there are 100 ways to skin a cat, cartek has their way which in their little world might be fine & for some people as Marc stated its worked out great with their 8, 9, 10 second cars...for my car it didnt work for ****. Now knowing what I know I can see why. They obviously have a good business going, god bless them. I was just stating what was in the tune & how they do it.