Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar
Go Back   NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds > Tech Forums > Brake, Chassis and Suspension Tech

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-18-2016, 12:43 PM   #1
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
Brake Upgrade Options

It has come time to spend some reasonable coin on a new braking setup for the firebird. It seems the past 2 rentals have been tough on my brakes so it's clear I need a better option. For reference, I upgraded my stock 97 brakes to the new dual piston setup on the 98-02 cars.

I tried NAPA premium blanks and adaptive one ceramic pads. The car proceeded to hot spot the crap out of them. I thought maybe trying a slotted rotor would help dissipate the heat a little better so I tried the Brakemotive setup. The rotors are drilled/slotted and came with ceramic pads. Those got trashed pretty well too at the last track rental but thankfully didn't crack.

It's clear I need to go for a bigger brake package as I think I'm simply overwhelming the stock style brakes with 140mph trap speeds and a 4200lb race weight. I may be able to get away with a good set of blanks with a non-ceramic pad but I'd rather not keep tossing away money on lackluster setups. Going with anything bigger will require new front runners since nothing will tuck behind the 15" Welds.

I've seen folks go to C5/C6/CTSV1/CTSV2 setups but I will admit to being a bit overwhelmed with the options. My street wheels are the 19" CCWs so those should fit just about anything.

Let me know your thoughts.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 12:59 PM   #2
BonzoHansen
Admin.
 
BonzoHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
iTrader: (27)
You are trying to haul down a somewhat heavy car from high rates of speed. I might give Tobin at Kore3 a call if you want to go with OE options, or look into Baer or Wilwood options. Mind you a change up front may require changes out back to keep braking balance in line, as well as a possible m/c change. If the ABS is still in play that is another layer complexity to consider.
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
BonzoHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 01:17 PM   #3
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
I have an email to Sam Strano and will do some of my own homework. The car still has ABS and understand a change to the front may require updates to the rear. I'm trying to weigh out options that will do the job and don't necessarily shatter the piggy bank. I need to budget $ for new front runners too but that's not critical unless I was looking to race earlier in the season which is unlikely. The brakes do not need to be road course worthy.

Driving the HC makes me dislike the braking for everything else I own lol.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 01:26 PM   #4
MDSheds_SS
11 sec club
 
MDSheds_SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Woodbridge
Posts: 834
iTrader: (1)
Social Networks:

Parachute FTW! Lol
__________________
99 Z28 Trick Flow 215s milled to 61cc 228/232 Cam Fast 102 built 4l65e trans 4000 converter 12 bolt 410s Electric WP deleted PS/AC Dyno & Track tuned
2015 ATS Coupe. AWD 2.0 Turbo
2012 2500hd Silverado with LTZ 20s on 35x12.5x20
86 Buick GN Lesabre 1 of 117 (4-Sale)
MDSheds_SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 01:33 PM   #5
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDSheds_SS View Post
Parachute FTW! Lol
LOL. Don't think the state troopers on 287 would appreciate use of a chute. I like the visual though.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 01:48 PM   #6
Featherburner
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arm pit of the world... NJ
Posts: 2,673
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6 View Post
LOL. Don't think the state troopers on 287 would appreciate use of a chute. I like the visual though.
I'll put in a good word with the Troopers. Hell, they may pull over and help you repack it on the shoulder.
__________________
John
Featherburner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 01:55 PM   #7
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Featherburner View Post
I'll put in a good word with the Troopers. Hell, they may pull over and help you repack it on the shoulder.
Perfect . I'd guess they help me pack and then have a flat bed come by to impound it. Worth it?

Scott - I've been doing some more reading and it seems a better brake package on the rear of these cars can cause all sorts of fun issues so most folks focus on the front.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 02:49 PM   #8
BonzoHansen
Admin.
 
BonzoHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
iTrader: (27)
You need a team!



__________________
Vent Windows Forever!

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
BonzoHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 02:50 PM   #9
BonzoHansen
Admin.
 
BonzoHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
iTrader: (27)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6 View Post
Perfect . I'd guess they help me pack and then have a flat bed come by to impound it. Worth it?

Scott - I've been doing some more reading and it seems a better brake package on the rear of these cars can cause all sorts of fun issues so most folks focus on the front.
What problems? What did they do, just upgrade the back?
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
BonzoHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 03:40 PM   #10
unstable bob gable
American Road Warrior
 
unstable bob gable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wastelands of NJ
Posts: 6,116
iTrader: (2)
A Queen Mary sized anchor maybe?
__________________
unstable bob gable: LEGENDARY LEGEND,
ICONIC ICON, AND AMERICAN BAD AZZ!!!

1991 Dodge Spirit R/T: Gran'pa lookin' 150+ mph turbo rocket.

2013 Dodge Avenger RT: Wastelands cruiser.

2008 Crown Vic Police Interceptor: 'Nuff said!

THE ONLY THING THAT SUCKS WORSE THEN IMPORTS ARE RICED OUT IMPORTS!!!
unstable bob gable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 04:00 PM   #11
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
What problems? What did they do, just upgrade the back?
Pads kicking back, shuddering etc. This was with an upgrade up front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unstable bob gable View Post
A Queen Mary sized anchor maybe?
Roads are bad enough in NJ. I don't want to make them worse.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 04:26 PM   #12
BonzoHansen
Admin.
 
BonzoHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
iTrader: (27)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6 View Post
Pads kicking back, shuddering etc. This was with an upgrade up front.
not sure what the shuddering thing is about, pad knock back is something you typically talk about when turning corners. that is why open track cars are serious auto crossers are using full floaters instead of c-clip setups. I've never heard drag racers talk about that much, but could I suppose. But your current brakes will do that too, they are not immune to knock back because they are stock or small. You should talk to pros for their opinion. You do not have a typical interweb car.

You run a dana 60 rear? what ends are on them, GM?
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop

Last edited by BonzoHansen; 04-18-2016 at 04:27 PM.
BonzoHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 04:53 PM   #13
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
It's just what I read so I'm not making any claims of real knowledge here. S60 just has backing plates for the factory 93-97 calipers.

Strano got back to me with some questions so we will see where it goes. I will send a few more messages this evening.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 05:59 PM   #14
LTb1ow
Mongo the Meet Coordinator
 
LTb1ow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,892
iTrader: (8)
And don't forget to toss in the massive weight transfer you get when your car dives on heavy braking. I know you are trying to fix that via heavier springs but thats something that can't be overlooked either.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkEvil View Post
repo bigals turd gen and part it out to a loving home
LTb1ow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 08:10 PM   #15
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
Yup. Good point.

Strano got back to me and I'm not sure if he is trying to just get me out of his hair or is legitimately providing sound advice. He basically said a set of better pads would be his solution. I thought I was pretty clear with everything and told him I understood that with better breaking comes noise and dust.

I'm sure non ceramic pads will help but I guess I expected a more thorough answer.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 08:33 PM   #16
WildBillyT
Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
 
WildBillyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
iTrader: (10)
What do the rear brakes look like? Are they roasted too?
WildBillyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 09:15 PM   #17
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT View Post
What do the rear brakes look like? Are they roasted too?
Rear brakes look normal.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 09:27 PM   #18
BonzoHansen
Admin.
 
BonzoHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Posts: 20,149
iTrader: (27)
Id personally call Tobin at kore3 and wilwood and get their $0.02
__________________
Vent Windows Forever!

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop

Last edited by BonzoHansen; 04-19-2016 at 06:43 AM.
BonzoHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 09:52 PM   #19
TaKid455
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 586
iTrader: (1)
Wilwood has a setup that fits behind 15" rims.

The V setup seems to be the most liked and best bang for the buck.

I run the C6Z brakes on the 78 TA and they are awesome. Huge improvement over the C5 setup. I do have pad knock back on the rear due to C clip axles which will be addressed in the future via installing floating axle ends.

High speed( such as velocities you mentioned) aggressive stops are not an issue. I worry more about the people behind me stopping in time than me hitting the people in front.

GM calipers, Hawk pads and DBA rotors. I'd switch to an aggressive pad and cheap stock blank rotor for track days.

Tobin & I have done a good bit of business together.

Last edited by TaKid455; 04-18-2016 at 09:54 PM.
TaKid455 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 07:36 AM   #20
unstable bob gable
American Road Warrior
 
unstable bob gable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wastelands of NJ
Posts: 6,116
iTrader: (2)
I've had very good luck with EBC pads. I run the Yellows on my Viper truck, and reds on my R/T. Hell I'm even going to throw a set of Reds on the front of my 2 Dolla Cavalier even though the pads are worth more then the car. Lol
__________________
unstable bob gable: LEGENDARY LEGEND,
ICONIC ICON, AND AMERICAN BAD AZZ!!!

1991 Dodge Spirit R/T: Gran'pa lookin' 150+ mph turbo rocket.

2013 Dodge Avenger RT: Wastelands cruiser.

2008 Crown Vic Police Interceptor: 'Nuff said!

THE ONLY THING THAT SUCKS WORSE THEN IMPORTS ARE RICED OUT IMPORTS!!!
unstable bob gable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 07:43 AM   #21
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Millstone Township, NJ
Posts: 6,351
iTrader: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
Id personally call Tobin at kore3 and wilwood and get their $0.02
I will be making a few calls this week if I get a moment. It's no rush since I rarely race in the warmer months anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaKid455 View Post
Wilwood has a setup that fits behind 15" rims.

The V setup seems to be the most liked and best bang for the buck.

I run the C6Z brakes on the 78 TA and they are awesome. Huge improvement over the C5 setup. I do have pad knock back on the rear due to C clip axles which will be addressed in the future via installing floating axle ends.

High speed( such as velocities you mentioned) aggressive stops are not an issue. I worry more about the people behind me stopping in time than me hitting the people in front.

GM calipers, Hawk pads and DBA rotors. I'd switch to an aggressive pad and cheap stock blank rotor for track days.

Tobin & I have done a good bit of business together.
Once I have all the options laid out clearly, I will see what makes the most sense. Good brakes I consider to be generally a safety item but it's more needed for 1/4 mile passes. I horse around on the highway but I'm no 1320 video star.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unstable bob gable View Post
I've had very good luck with EBC pads. I run the Yellows on my Viper truck, and reds on my R/T. Hell I'm even going to throw a set of Reds on the front of my 2 Dolla Cavalier even though the pads are worth more then the car. Lol
I had EBC greens a while back. They were fine but the car was much slower then.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

'24 Corvette Z06
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 09:13 AM   #22
WildBillyT
Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla / Admin
 
WildBillyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 12,573
iTrader: (10)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6 View Post
Rear brakes look normal.
Not trying to complicate things, but if it's nose diving maybe an adjustable prop valve would help?
WildBillyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 09:22 AM   #23
The_Bishop
Power Member
 
The_Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 1,631
iTrader: (3)
Here's an off the wall question: Are you breaking in the pads correctly?

See here: https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6443
__________________
1998 Z-28 - SLP lid - Ported TB - LS6 Intake - Dynatech SS headers/Catted Y - Magnaflow Exh - 3.42 - Yank SS3600 - UMI weld-in subframe connectors, Adj LCA, Adj PHB, Q1A TA - Bolt-in Relocation Brackets - Strano springs - Koni shocks - 17" C6Z06 wheels - 326HP/335ft-lbs - 12.35 @ 110.41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6 View Post
I can appreciate a dream but this person needed some real friends.
The_Bishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 09:47 AM   #24
unstable bob gable
American Road Warrior
 
unstable bob gable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wastelands of NJ
Posts: 6,116
iTrader: (2)
Ya might also consider cryogenically treating whatever new brake items you try. I've heard a lot of positive things due to the treatment.
__________________
unstable bob gable: LEGENDARY LEGEND,
ICONIC ICON, AND AMERICAN BAD AZZ!!!

1991 Dodge Spirit R/T: Gran'pa lookin' 150+ mph turbo rocket.

2013 Dodge Avenger RT: Wastelands cruiser.

2008 Crown Vic Police Interceptor: 'Nuff said!

THE ONLY THING THAT SUCKS WORSE THEN IMPORTS ARE RICED OUT IMPORTS!!!
unstable bob gable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 09:49 AM   #25
SS Performance
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cape May County
Posts: 24
iTrader: (2)
Wilwood offers several options.

They have pads of several compounds for different applications as well as brake kits,

They have kits with different rotor sizes that will fit with 15 inch wheels.

If you go with a brake kit, regardless of manufacturer, I would stay away from cross drilled rotors. On vented rotor they tend to develop crack due to not having the insides chamfered.

Good luck
Craig
SS Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds > Tech Forums > Brake, Chassis and Suspension Tech

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Sponsor List














All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.