THE biggest online debate ever?

[oh one ls1 SS]

thanks for posting a min. before me ian make me look like a jackass by saying what u said

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Rob WS6

The question states that it tracks the planes speed and applies equal reverse speed to the conveyor, and you DO NOT measure the speed of an airplane by the wheels.

AHHH, very good point.

so if it really did operate off the planes speed, the belt would start and when the plane stopped moving, the belt would stop, but then the plane would start moving again so it would start up again. I knew there was a reason I went to school for cars and not planes.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by oh one ls1 SS

thanks for posting a min. before me ian make me look like a jackass by saying what u said

no problem buddy

[oh one ls1 SS]

i did to much thinking for one night back to need 4 speed!!

[Tsar]

Nahh it wont take off. There will be no lift. The air has to be moving beneath the wings of the airplane to generate lift and for an airplane to take flight. There's also that whole drag thing that i think people forgot to mention. Lift has to overcome drag for the airplane to take off. There wont be either of those because the airplane is stationary on the belt however. Later induced drag doesnt matter as much, and you should be more converned with parasite drag. So plane on a conveyer belt = no lift = airplane just sits there. Even if you increase the angle of attack (up to a certain point) on the airplane that is sitting on a conveyer belt which techincally requires less speed for it to take off it still wont, because the greater the angle of attack the more induced drag you have.

[JL8Jeff]

It won't take off. You need the wings moving through the air to create lift and the wings are sitting still on the treadmill. And if it did work, the military would be using it already!

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

It won't take off. You need the wings moving through the air to create lift and the wings are sitting still on the treadmill. And if it did work, the military would be using it already!

i guess thats why they came up with a vertical take off airplanes and not conveyer driven type take off.

[trashman01]

Originally Posted by oh one ls1 SS

i understand both sides and right now i wish the plane would just blow up (with no passangers and crewmembers ofcourse)

QFT

[its Jeanne-Marie]

At JM's place

Once the plane has some force pushing it forward, the wheels will just spin with the conveyer. If they measure the speed of the plane and apply that to the conveyer, the wheels will just be moving at an incredibl speed in the opposite direction. The only force the plane needs to overcome is the friction between the tires and the conveyer. If the wheels were directly linked to the planes jets/motor, then it would not work, but since they are not, the plane can still move forward.

~Ted

[badzracing]

Just turn the goddamn plane around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GP99GT]

the plane will take off, the end. everyone is thinking of it as if it were a car where the WHEELS are what drives it, which would mean it would stay stationary. but thats not the case here, the plane will move forward, create lift, take off. and the wheels will probably be going 1000mph by the time it gets to takeoff speed but that doesnt matter

[GP99GT]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

The only way the plane could move forward would be if you turned off the conveyer. As long as the plane is sitting on the conveyer not moving, there is no airflow across the wings and therefore no lift, no takeoff.

thats where youre all wrong.

the plane WILL move, because the wheels arent whats holding it back - they dont drive the plane. read my example on page 3 and it should make sense, im tired of this debate lol

[12secondv6]

Can you find a conveyer that can handle that weight?

[GP99GT]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

You're missing it completely. If the conveyer moves backwards at the same speed the plane is accelerating forward then the plane itself isn't moving. It has nothing to do with wheels or friction. The plane is riding on it's wheels as it tries to move forward but the conveyer is counteracting the forward roll. So the plane stays in the same place. It's the same as me getting on my bike and riding it on a treadmill(which I do, we have a bike roller setup). I'm sitting in my living room doing 25 mph on the treadmill but there's no breeze blowing on me. So the plane would be in the same situation, no air across the wings, no lift. I know you'll get it eventually!

youre the one thats missing it.

You can ride your bike like that on a treadmill, because the wheels on your bike are what move it, they drive it forward, they push off the surface in order to move. thats why you stay stationary. With a plane, it pushes off the air by using jet engines/a propellor, so the wheels underneath have no effect on the speed of the plane.

Say the plane is going 300mph at takeoff, that would mean the conveyor is moving 300mph int he opposite direction, making the effective speed of the wheels 600mph. this is because the plane isnt driven by the wheels! youll get it eventually.

[GP99GT]

here, this is what a guy on anti-rice posted. He gets it.

Agreed, the plane would take off. The airspeed of the plane has no relation on the speed of the wheels, who cares how fast they are moving. The speed of the wheels and the thrust coming from the turbines is independent. There is no relation to how fast the plane is moving through the air and how fast the wheels are moving. Here is how it would happen...

At first when the engines were starting to spool up and the plane was just crawling the conveyor would keep it in place. The natural friction of the wheels against the ground and moving parts/bearings would be enough to make it keep pace with the system. Very soon though the thrust from the engines would overtake the friction against the wheels, no matter how fast they were spinning, and the plane would begin to move forward. Its very simple.

If a plane were flying in air and the wheels were spinning 100,000 rpm in the opposite direction do you think it would have any effect on the airspeed? This is effectively the same thing. Imagine if the belt wasn't even there, because the speed of the wheels is irrelevant to the speed of the plane...

[Savage_Messiah]

once again I say...

now this **** in on FTV6 too

[its Jeanne-Marie]

hi, i'm gonna cut the wheels off. bye.

[jims69camaro]

it will not take off. using the example from the other board, he is saying the engine will eventually move the plane forward, but this is an impossibility. it goes against physics.

if all the conveyor did was keep pace with the wheels, then it could be true, but it doesn't say that - it says the conveyor will move at a speed equal to the plane's speed, which will keep the plane stationary. if the plane is stationary, then it cannot take off.

good thing some of you went to college. but i think some of you need to ask for a refund...

[GP99GT]

If the plane is stationary...then the conveyor wouldnt be moving.

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by Ian

but the plane will not move through the air. It NEEDS air under the wings to take off. I can run 15 mph on a treadmill, but after an hour of doing so, I'm still on the treadmill, not 15 miles away. you see what I'm saying? the thrust is only half of what makes the plane take off, the other half is air flow across the wings creating a hig pressure area under the wing and a low pressure area above it....or vice versa, I dont really remember.

it is a very simple concept. if you are running on a treadmill it is your feet that is keeping pace with the treadmill.
in teh case of an airplane the wheels just sit and spin freely at whatever pace the ground under them dictates.
the thrust force of the jet engines works independantly of the wheels. it will push the plane forward regardless fo what the ground beneath the plane is doing and whatever effect that ground has on the wheels.
the plane would move forward and take off as if the conveyor system wasn't there. the only effect you would see is if you tracked the wheel speeds they woudl actually be spinning at twice teh speed of the air plane during acceleration, which doesn't matter since the wheels are jsut free spinning like roller skate wheels anyway.
and as a side note, it is actually the low pressure area above a wing that creates lift, not the force under teh wing.

[95firebirdconvertible]

I am going to try it. I will give ya'll the results.

[enRo]

Who gives a ****? Does this plane have a hover engine? If so, its gonna take off

[ryanfx]

Well that pissed me off - I typed this huge thing and then it got erased when an error occured trying to post it... so i'll type it again.


This answer all lays within one factor - how much thrust the plane is capable of generating.

Think of a conventional spaceship, if you will.

There is zero air flow, however it is able to propel itself off of the ground.

How? you ask?

Because the über ammount of thrust it is capable of generating is more than its weight in pounds on the earth.

This is however untrue with conventional airplanes. They require a magical element called lift, which allows it to 'cheat' physics and transfer current horizontal energy into vertical energy.

So theoretically - if an airplane were capable of carrying a payload great enough to propel itself into the air, without the use of lift then yes =D it will fly

in real life terms, an airplane is not capable of this. Simply because of weight and monetary issues - who would not want to use lift when you had it available to you?

If you put a SAM missile on wheels, and put it in the same scenario, I would highly doubt any of you would question one another - do you catch my drift?

[Koll]

There isnt any lift being generated so no

[/thread]

[Koll]

Originally Posted by GP99GT

the plane will move, the wheels will be going a million miles an hour though. keep in mind, the plane isnt driven by the wheels, it just rolls on them...the thrust will still push the plane

Thrust doesnt lift the plane :tard: