Question on LT1 heads

[grandkodiak]

Have an opportunity to pick up some completly done heads from Edlebrock that claim an average 24hp gain over stock heads.
Specs:
54cc 170cc 1.94"/1.55"
No flow numbers tha tI can find.

I was curious, are these a good deal? Or am I better off getting my own heads ported or finding some AFR heads? Mind you these are cheap heads and I'm on a budget, but I also dont need them right now since I dont even have a cam yet... I plan CC305 with 1.6rr since I'm in NJ obviously and would like to stay CARB/OE legal for inspection and resale later down the road if it becomes a necesity.

Are these good numbers or should a ported head show much more gains? mind you I believe the 24hp is still on stock cam... but i dont know much about what i should/shouldnt expect when dealing with heads.

what kind of power would i see with the 305 and the edlebrock heads? (current mods are full intake. 1 3/4 headers jehot, stright back borla, etc etc free mods yadda yadda., and will be dyno tuning when i get heads/cam package)

[j0n]

from what i've read the best bang for the buck has always been just to get stock lt1 heads p/p...usually with a half-decent port job they'll outflow lt4 heads

[Squirrel]

www.eportworks.com

[The Fixer]

You have a 305 LT1? Or is that a typo?

I'm assuming a typo since the car in your sig has an LT1. The heads would be a good investment if you plan on camming the motor. I would be wise to do the cam/heads at the same time, since there is so much stuff to remove in that very tight engine bay.

[ar0ck]

Originally Posted by TPI Monte SS

You have a 305 LT1? Or is that a typo?

I'm assuming a typo since the car in your sig has an LT1. The heads would be a good investment if you plan on camming the motor. I would be wise to do the cam/heads at the same time, since there is so much stuff to remove in that very tight engine bay.

CC305, thats Comp Cams smallest of the LT1 Cams.

[foff667]

you could also check out head games motorwerks in ewing...dave has messed with a little of everything from ls1 heads to import 4cyl heads

[grandkodiak]

No its not a typo, I was refering to the cam, CC305 not the engine. And I DO plan both at the same time, I'm just wondering if the heads are worth it or not, they are NOT LT4 heads, they are edlebrocks own creation.

And I do believe the CC305 is actually more aggressive then the LT4 Hot Cam, and just shy of CC306, and still more then both CC's other LT1 cams XE500 and XE501 so.... its hardly thier least aggressive cam.



So my question remains, are these heads which I can get under a $1,000 complete be worth it over getting stock heads ported or finding AFR? Concidering I will be most likely using the CC305 cam.





*****************
*****************
CC305:

Part Number 07-305-9

Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0 0
Gross Valve Lift 0.51 0.51
Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 276 290

Valve Timing At 0.006
Open Close
Intake 28 68
Exhaust 83 27

These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 110 Intake CL
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 220 230
Lobe Lift 0.34 0.34
Lobe Separation 114

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[NJSPEEDER]

i would look into the afr's or another noted porting shops heads. edelbrock makes nice stuff that is for sure, but a lot of what you are paying for is just a name.
ask around at ls1tech.com or camaroz28.com to see what LT1 heads are best.
i woudl also look for a more aggressive cam. that cam would be nice cam only, but once you add heads to the mix the motor can definately handle a bit more. the lift is good, more advertised duration woudl be nice though, look for something high 28x's in and mid 29x's exhaust with a little less lobe seperation.

later
tim

[grandkodiak]

Next cam I've seen up is thier own CC306 and I've seen almost universal opinions that it is not emissions friendly.

[kamikaz]

Originally Posted by grandkodiak

Next cam I've seen up is thier own CC306 and I've seen almost universal opinions that it is not emissions friendly.

I can vouch for that,i used to have that cam.my understanding is that you go with a 306 0n 6spds and a 305 on auto's.when i had the 306 i had stock LT1 heads with some port work done.i would also recommend staying with your LT1 heads also with either cam 8)

Later,

Santos

[grandkodiak]

Did you pass emissions? How many miles/old was your car at the time? Did you have to have custom tune to pass? Why did you get rid of the 306? Thank you! I always perfer to hear things from people with experience and not just opinion

-Brian

[NJSPEEDER]

the car will have to be tuned to handle the new cam properly anyway. any potential problems with emissions can be taken care of with the tune.

later
tim

[grandkodiak]

Do you have the cam? i need real info, i cannot afford to have a cam installed, tune it, fail emissions, retune it, and still fail and have to swap cam and have a third tune. whatever goes in has to be garunteed to be able to pass.

[NJSPEEDER]

i don't have an LT1, but i have seen cars without cats or egr get through inspection with just tuning.
isn't '96 the first year of OBD2? if it is then all you have to do is not have any codes showing and pass a visual to get through inspection. they shouldn't be sending you across the rollers

later
tim

[foff667]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

i don't have an LT1, but i have seen cars without cats or egr get through inspection with just tuning.
isn't '96 the first year of OBD2? if it is then all you have to do is not have any codes showing and pass a visual to get through inspection. they shouldn't be sending you across the rollers

later
tim

[Blackbirdws6]

I got the edelbrock heads simply to not dig into my stock heads. I had a little cleanup done on them, but if your on a budget then a good p&p of the stock heads will be a very good option. I know I could get more power from a different set of heads or even a full port on the edelbrocks, but time was a factor and I am satisfied with the results everytime I hit the gas. The car will have to be tuned for the mods, and my computer minus rear 02's, egr, and air (no cats also) has passed just recently. It wont pass visual but it passes the plug in test.

If time isnt a big factor and you have another means of transportation....get the stock heads fully p&p by people such as AI, Loyd Elliot or the other good porters and you'll be very happy.

good luck

[grandkodiak]

Tis my only ride so it's find them on ebay or go scratch

I pass the plug in every time, but they also sniffer the car everytime too... something about a loud ass sunset orange car with aftermarket ram air that sets off thier suspision meter.

[kamikaz]

Originally Posted by grandkodiak

Did you pass emissions? How many miles/old was your car at the time? Did you have to have custom tune to pass? Why did you get rid of the 306? Thank you! I always perfer to hear things from people with experience and not just opinion

-Brian

Sorry for the late reply.
I had to get a inspection sticker if you know what i mean anytime someone drove behind me,the peoples eyes started to water.the motor had about 5000 miles since the previous rebuilt.it was on a 93 speed density car and i got DFI for it.i didnt get rid of the 306 really,it's still in the block i have in the backyard.I blew the rear in M.I.R and was going to go with a solid roller set-up,but lost interest all together and got rid of the rolling chassis.
The 306 is the way to go for your 6spd,but your 2 hurdles are going to be tuning and inspection.port your stock castings and get Long tubes with it.
Hope this help

Later,

Santos

[NJSPEEDER]

if they send you across the rollers with a OBD2 car i woudl just go to a different inspection station.
once they scan the computer and do the visual they aren't supposed to do anything else to the car.
if not you can always go to a private station and get "re-inspected" for a nominal fee and have a real sticker on the car.

later
tim

[Pampered-Z]

I would look at more then flow number for the heads if your trying to stay on a budget you need to look at the springs for lift as well.

With a 305 or 306 cam you are going to need different valve springs, stock springs will bind. You are going to need the spring pockets recut on stock heads. So if you price out the machine work and parts the Edelbrock may be a good price. I spend $1,500 on my heads, LT1's. milled, reshaped, porting, bigger valves, springs, titanium retainers, sur-locks etc.

I think the LSa is too tight on a 306 to pass a sniffer. Maybe with a 114/115 LSA it could go thru, but why bother as that will just kill the top end.

I've seen Hotcams + heads pull 325 RWHP, I'd expect the 305 to be slightly better.

With the above heads, Mac shorties and 52MM TB using a smaller Lingenfelter 211/219 cam I pulled 317 HP and 336 torque on the dyno.

[ar0ck]

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

With the above heads, Mac shorties and 52MM TB using a smaller Lingenfelter 211/219 cam I pulled 317 HP and 336 torque on the dyno.

Just curious but at what RPM's did the Tourqe come on at?

Personally my plan would be to get a spare set of heads at a cheap price probably from ebay or local, and have them sent to Lloyd Elliot, for the LE1 Package, so that way it would less'n the downtime of having to pull my own heads and have them sent out, and once everything is finally gathered.

[Pampered-Z]

Originally Posted by TransAm4Life

Just curious but at what RPM's did the Tourqe come on at?

Personally my plan would be to get a spare set of heads at a cheap price probably from ebay or local, and have them sent to Lloyd Elliot, for the LE1 Package, so that way it would less'n the downtime of having to pull my own heads and have them sent out, and once everything is finally gathered.

I'll try to find the dyno sheet when I get home, but the 211/219 cam made it's power and torque low. The car pulled hard starting just above 2K and pulled hard until about 5K, but 5600 the HP and torque really fell off. Car went 13.0 @ 109 ( 2.1 60') shifting at 5500 RPMs compared to others with bigger cams that went 111-113 MPH.

I wanted to make sure I passed the sniffer in PA which is why I picked this cam. The car actaully was cleaner then when stock but the short duration hurt top end power. I liked the cam until I start racing more and driving it less so under 5K miles a year I became exempt, so I went nuts and built the 383/blower.

211/219Dur, 530/560(w/1.6 rockers), 112 LSA.

I think the 211/219 was a great street cam and would be a great cam for a heavyier car like an Impala. Plus the idle sounded sweet!

Doug (Black 96 Z28 vert.) that comes to the meeting at Fudd's has my cam now. He wanted more power but isn't a big drag racers and the cam was perfect for his needs.

If I built another motor for street/strip I would go with a cam more like the Extrem 224/230 which looks like a really good cam if run with 3:42 or 3:73s and a 2800 stall would make a nice package. It would "probably" pass with good tuning.

[Fastbird]

AFAIK the biggest difference in the Edlebrock heads is a slightly larger exhaust runner, promoting better exhaust flow. No big thing, and definitely NOT worth the purchase price when compared with LT1 heads.

There's other better options than the CC305 out there. Joe Prince did me a set of LT1 heads (ported factory casting in other words) and I had a Comp XE224/230 ground on a 112* LSA thrown in and made 375/363 through mid length ASM headers and a FULL exhaust, including a cat. That was also with a six speed with a steel flywheel (read heavy) street twin clutch. And it would have passed emissions had I put it on the rollers but I never got the chance. Look at my web page to see the dyno graph. Torque out of the yin-yang all across the board and power to back it up.

My recommendation would be to pick up a spare set of LT1 heads to get ported, and then pick your cam and have the porting on the heads matched to the cam you chose. Plenty of emissions legal cams are out there: Hotcam, XE218/224, XE224/230, CC305, Crane 210/224, Crane 222/230 (GM846) will all pass emissions with or without ported heads with the proper tuning (and I don't mean an emissions only tune).