some dumb questions about suspension set up, and what to do - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

procamaroz28 · 10-09-2009, 08:11 PM

ok this may be some dumb questions but im new to the auto x and road race thing but i def. want to start getting into it...

1- i got lca relocation brackets installed do i really need these??? i feel they are for people that just wana drag race...

2- i got lca w/ rb's and adjustable phb and sfc's and stb what else should i get im planning for torque arm w/ cross member and c5 z06 brake conversion... is that a good plan what would u do??

EchoMirage · 10-09-2009, 09:29 PM

reloc LCA are used when youre lowered. they are NOT just for drag racing. any aftermarket torque arm is totally worthless for handling, unless you get the unbalanced engineering decoupled arm. an adj. PHB is only needed if youre lowered or plan on lowering. the C5 Z06 is nothing more then red calipers. exactly the same as a regular C5 swap. also, its not needed for the occasional autox. LS1 brakes are very good.

procamaroz28 · 10-09-2009, 11:55 PM

o forgot to mention i got bmr lowering springs...
ya that thing is too much money im gonna forget the torque arm for now...

thanks that actually helps...

procamaroz28 · 10-10-2009, 03:18 PM

how about the sway bars??? they worth it???

EchoMirage · 10-10-2009, 06:48 PM

of course. 35/22 is the usual combo.

creeper · 10-11-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by procamaroz28

how about the sway bars??? they worth it???

very very worth it, one of the biggest overall differences out of anything i've done. i've had mine on for a month and i'm still shocked at how much better it feels. shocks are a biggy too if you don't have them already.

as far as brakes, my stocks with autozone ceramic pads are more than enough to lock up the tires, so unless you're running some really sticky ones you don't need anything bigger

procamaroz28 · 10-11-2009, 07:41 PM

hmm ok so brakes are one less thing i need.. nice!!!

ok then where can i get a nice inexpensive set of sway bars??? i never bought them not installed them before so anything i need to know that is commonly overlooked???

creeper · 10-11-2009, 09:57 PM

if anything just throw some hawk hps's in the front, that should be fine for now

if you have the money get hollow bars. not much difference in rigidity between solid/hollow so you might as well keep weight off if you can, especially in the front. i have a 35/21 solid/solid setup and am very happy with it. a lot of people run a 22mm hollow in the rear as well, since it's very similar in strength to a solid 21mm yet weighs less.

one thing many people overlook is the fact that some 3rd gens(same rear suspension as 4th) came with 21mm rear bars. those normally go for around $30. perfect match for a 35mm front, plus you can put the $120ish you save on the rear bar towards the hollow front or some other goodies. stock rear bars are solid anyway, so there will be maybe a 1 lb weight gain. not worth an extra $170 to go hollow back there if you can find a cheap rear bar IMO. on the other hand, stock front bars are hollow. my solid 35mm front weighed roughly 15lbs more than the hollow 32mm bar it replaced, and while it still made a huge difference, i hate knowing how much weight it added to front of my car.

going this route(hollow front, solid 21mm 3rd gen or 1LE rear) will get you a very nice swaybar setup for under $300, instead of almost $500 for the exact same thing -2lbs.

procamaroz28 · 10-11-2009, 10:04 PM

o... well i guess that 15lb gain dont matter since ur making it faster around the track i guess

creeper · 10-11-2009, 10:22 PM

noooo 15lbs in the front of the car does matter. it will corner faster than stock, yes, but it's still an extra 15lbs. if i could corner just as well without that weight, it would be even better yet. that is why hollow>solid.

what i meant was instead of buying a brand new 35/21 solid/solid setup, try to find 3rd gen or used 21mm rear bar so you have extra $ to spend on a hollow front where the weight really matters.

i doubt you would feel the difference between hollow/solid, but it is adding considerable weight in a bad place so i would avoid it if you can

procamaroz28 · 10-11-2009, 10:43 PM

oo ok gotchya

Blacdout96 · 10-12-2009, 07:41 AM

Best thing to do IMO is to go to an auto X stock, run a few events until you are comfortable with the car and you understand the handling, THEN add parts on slowely, starting with shocks/springs, and go form there. Sway bars will make a big difference so they should be second, as well as a tower brace.

198esp1 · 10-12-2009, 11:34 AM

bingo we have a winner. seat time and more seat time. then find out what you want the car to do better.

procamaroz28 · 10-12-2009, 12:46 PM

well ya... im not spending the money till i get more comfortable w/ my car 1st this is just to help plan w/ future spending and add ons not really a shopping list LOL

creeper · 10-12-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Sway bars will make a big difference so they should be second, as well as a tower brace.

does the strut tower brace actually make a noticeable difference?

from some people i've heard once you have subframe connectors it's basically just extra weight, and from others i've heard it's amazing.

Blacdout96 · 10-13-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeper

does the strut tower brace actually make a noticeable difference?

from some people i've heard once you have subframe connectors it's basically just extra weight, and from others i've heard it's amazing.

depends on which kind you get. If you get one from pepboys, no no difference, you get one thats custom for our cars, yes, not much but yes. you have to realize one component alone won't turn your handling around, suspension setups all work together to make a difference.

WildBillyT · 10-13-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeper

does the strut tower brace actually make a noticeable difference?

from some people i've heard once you have subframe connectors it's basically just extra weight, and from others i've heard it's amazing.

Subframe connectors primarily help with beaming stiffness. Strut braces help with torsional stiffness. Both will help you with what you want- especially if you have a T-Top car.

PolarBear · 10-21-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeper

as far as brakes, my stocks with autozone ceramic pads are more than enough to lock up the tires, so unless you're running some really sticky ones you don't need anything bigger

Thats funny.

The stock brakes start to fade a lot sooner than most of the aftermarket brake setups. Part of this has to do with the fluid and heat transfer but the reason bigger is better is that you get more leverage and help slow the car better.
Just because you can lock up a brake setup doesnt mean anything

EchoMirage · 10-21-2009, 08:30 AM

uh huh really.....ive had dozens of autoxs on stock brakes and never had a problem. i use HP+ for the track, but switch to stock pads for autox. creeper was talking about autox, and im sure so was the OP as that is much easier and cheaper to do then track days. OBVIOUSLY you swap pads and rotors for a track.

PolarBear · 10-21-2009, 08:37 AM

I edited too much out of the original post.
Also I have no idea what car the OP is running but I know on my 88 I COULD get noticable fade in regular street driving, not doing anything fancy or illegal on the road. My main point is that just because you can lock the brakes up doesnt mean the brakes are enough.
Personal experience may vary here, as you are stating, but the OP was showing an interest in a brake upgrade.

Blacdout96 · 10-21-2009, 11:42 AM

You got brake fade from normal driving? I find that hard to believe, and even so if it is true, that's not good. I think you need to look over your system if that's happening. Our car's braking system ( 3rd and 4th gens) have been built to withstand mild and medium driving excursions without brake fade, so obviously I have to raise the BS flag, or there is something wrong with your car you need to have addressed.

PolarBear · 10-21-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarBear

not doing anything fancy or illegal on the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

You got brake fade from normal driving?

This was intended to be a disclaimer that I was not street racing or doing anything illegal. When I was younger I drove like an idiot and drove aggressively and did not have a lot of fade bu there was a time or two during summertime rushour traffic driving RT 1 north then I got off onto 287 got up to 65~70 and then traffic was at a dead stop ahead and I can remember jamming on the brakes and I didnt think I was going to stop in time. This was not the norm though and I also remember when I put Brutestops on the car braking was improved greatly but they still sucked compared to the setup I have now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Our car's braking system ( 3rd and 4th gens) have been built to withstand mild and medium driving excursions without brake fade,

3rd gen bolded here for a reason, We may be comparing apples to peaches for what kind of car the OP has because I have no idea. IMO you cant be serious about 3rd gen brakes being good for much, point in fact that the 1LE cars got the 12" C4 brakes.
I have a 12.2" x 1.25" rotor with a fixed 4 piston caliper and the difference is not even comparable to stock crap. If I were to ever get another 3rd gen the first thing I would do is a brake upgrade no matter what I intended to do with the car. They dont need the same setup I have now but even the LS1 upgrade is much much better.

My point is that unless you are in a class that does not allow an upgrade, brakes are worth the money. They may work but you can almost always do better with an upgrade.

creeper · 10-21-2009, 06:03 PM

i've never raced my car on a real track, but for autox and aggressive street driving stock sized brakes are fine from my experiences. there's no need to go bigger right off the bat. add some good fluid and decent pads and they'll be plenty. you won't run into fade problems on such a short track at such low speeds. for an open road course i'm sure they could use some improvement, but for the OP it's not something he's going to need immediately.

also, i was assuming that the car in question would be the 2000 ss mentioned in the OP's sig

procamaroz28 · 10-21-2009, 08:48 PM

umm anyways doesn't a lighter car not need upgraded brakes as a heavier car??

and i gotta do away with my relocation brackets they are UMI and they look like they are pushing back my rear .5" cause i just saw a cleaner part of yoke as if it pulled out of the trans

creeper · 10-21-2009, 11:10 PM

when you're moving fast 3600+ lbs is quite a bit of weight to stop

anyway, about the brackets: mine did the exact same thing. i just used it as an excuse to buy adjustable lca's. it has happened to quite a few other people as well. i contacted UMI about it and they said that it's an installation error. they'll talk you through it on the phone but it won't work(it didn't for me at least).

on the lowest setting mine actually pushed the rear back so far it caused the driver's side spring to rub the upper panhard bar. had to run them in the middle until i got the new lca's. also had to grind down the metal spacers on the rod ends to get them to fit into the bracket. all is good now though.