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Old 04-18-2016, 12:43 PM   #1
Blackbirdws6
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Brake Upgrade Options

It has come time to spend some reasonable coin on a new braking setup for the firebird. It seems the past 2 rentals have been tough on my brakes so it's clear I need a better option. For reference, I upgraded my stock 97 brakes to the new dual piston setup on the 98-02 cars.

I tried NAPA premium blanks and adaptive one ceramic pads. The car proceeded to hot spot the crap out of them. I thought maybe trying a slotted rotor would help dissipate the heat a little better so I tried the Brakemotive setup. The rotors are drilled/slotted and came with ceramic pads. Those got trashed pretty well too at the last track rental but thankfully didn't crack.

It's clear I need to go for a bigger brake package as I think I'm simply overwhelming the stock style brakes with 140mph trap speeds and a 4200lb race weight. I may be able to get away with a good set of blanks with a non-ceramic pad but I'd rather not keep tossing away money on lackluster setups. Going with anything bigger will require new front runners since nothing will tuck behind the 15" Welds.

I've seen folks go to C5/C6/CTSV1/CTSV2 setups but I will admit to being a bit overwhelmed with the options. My street wheels are the 19" CCWs so those should fit just about anything.

Let me know your thoughts.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:59 PM   #2
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You are trying to haul down a somewhat heavy car from high rates of speed. I might give Tobin at Kore3 a call if you want to go with OE options, or look into Baer or Wilwood options. Mind you a change up front may require changes out back to keep braking balance in line, as well as a possible m/c change. If the ABS is still in play that is another layer complexity to consider.
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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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Old 04-18-2016, 01:17 PM   #3
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I have an email to Sam Strano and will do some of my own homework. The car still has ABS and understand a change to the front may require updates to the rear. I'm trying to weigh out options that will do the job and don't necessarily shatter the piggy bank. I need to budget $ for new front runners too but that's not critical unless I was looking to race earlier in the season which is unlikely. The brakes do not need to be road course worthy.

Driving the HC makes me dislike the braking for everything else I own lol.
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Old 04-18-2016, 01:26 PM   #4
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Parachute FTW! Lol
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Old 04-18-2016, 01:33 PM   #5
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Parachute FTW! Lol
LOL. Don't think the state troopers on 287 would appreciate use of a chute. I like the visual though.
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Old 04-18-2016, 01:48 PM   #6
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LOL. Don't think the state troopers on 287 would appreciate use of a chute. I like the visual though.
I'll put in a good word with the Troopers. Hell, they may pull over and help you repack it on the shoulder.
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Old 04-18-2016, 01:55 PM   #7
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I'll put in a good word with the Troopers. Hell, they may pull over and help you repack it on the shoulder.
Perfect . I'd guess they help me pack and then have a flat bed come by to impound it. Worth it?

Scott - I've been doing some more reading and it seems a better brake package on the rear of these cars can cause all sorts of fun issues so most folks focus on the front.
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Old 04-18-2016, 02:49 PM   #8
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You need a team!



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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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Old 04-18-2016, 02:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6 View Post
Perfect . I'd guess they help me pack and then have a flat bed come by to impound it. Worth it?

Scott - I've been doing some more reading and it seems a better brake package on the rear of these cars can cause all sorts of fun issues so most folks focus on the front.
What problems? What did they do, just upgrade the back?
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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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Old 04-18-2016, 03:40 PM   #10
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A Queen Mary sized anchor maybe?
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
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What problems? What did they do, just upgrade the back?
Pads kicking back, shuddering etc. This was with an upgrade up front.

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Originally Posted by unstable bob gable View Post
A Queen Mary sized anchor maybe?
Roads are bad enough in NJ. I don't want to make them worse.
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6 View Post
Pads kicking back, shuddering etc. This was with an upgrade up front.
not sure what the shuddering thing is about, pad knock back is something you typically talk about when turning corners. that is why open track cars are serious auto crossers are using full floaters instead of c-clip setups. I've never heard drag racers talk about that much, but could I suppose. But your current brakes will do that too, they are not immune to knock back because they are stock or small. You should talk to pros for their opinion. You do not have a typical interweb car.

You run a dana 60 rear? what ends are on them, GM?
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The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop

Last edited by BonzoHansen; 04-18-2016 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:53 PM   #13
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It's just what I read so I'm not making any claims of real knowledge here. S60 just has backing plates for the factory 93-97 calipers.

Strano got back to me with some questions so we will see where it goes. I will send a few more messages this evening.
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Old 04-18-2016, 05:59 PM   #14
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And don't forget to toss in the massive weight transfer you get when your car dives on heavy braking. I know you are trying to fix that via heavier springs but thats something that can't be overlooked either.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:10 PM   #15
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Yup. Good point.

Strano got back to me and I'm not sure if he is trying to just get me out of his hair or is legitimately providing sound advice. He basically said a set of better pads would be his solution. I thought I was pretty clear with everything and told him I understood that with better breaking comes noise and dust.

I'm sure non ceramic pads will help but I guess I expected a more thorough answer.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:33 PM   #16
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What do the rear brakes look like? Are they roasted too?
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:15 PM   #17
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What do the rear brakes look like? Are they roasted too?
Rear brakes look normal.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:27 PM   #18
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Id personally call Tobin at kore3 and wilwood and get their $0.02
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Vent Windows Forever! ... My junk ... NJ Camaros and Firebirds

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop

Last edited by BonzoHansen; 04-19-2016 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:52 PM   #19
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Wilwood has a setup that fits behind 15" rims.

The V setup seems to be the most liked and best bang for the buck.

I run the C6Z brakes on the 78 TA and they are awesome. Huge improvement over the C5 setup. I do have pad knock back on the rear due to C clip axles which will be addressed in the future via installing floating axle ends.

High speed( such as velocities you mentioned) aggressive stops are not an issue. I worry more about the people behind me stopping in time than me hitting the people in front.

GM calipers, Hawk pads and DBA rotors. I'd switch to an aggressive pad and cheap stock blank rotor for track days.

Tobin & I have done a good bit of business together.

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Old 04-19-2016, 07:36 AM   #20
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I've had very good luck with EBC pads. I run the Yellows on my Viper truck, and reds on my R/T. Hell I'm even going to throw a set of Reds on the front of my 2 Dolla Cavalier even though the pads are worth more then the car. Lol
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:43 AM   #21
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Id personally call Tobin at kore3 and wilwood and get their $0.02
I will be making a few calls this week if I get a moment. It's no rush since I rarely race in the warmer months anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaKid455 View Post
Wilwood has a setup that fits behind 15" rims.

The V setup seems to be the most liked and best bang for the buck.

I run the C6Z brakes on the 78 TA and they are awesome. Huge improvement over the C5 setup. I do have pad knock back on the rear due to C clip axles which will be addressed in the future via installing floating axle ends.

High speed( such as velocities you mentioned) aggressive stops are not an issue. I worry more about the people behind me stopping in time than me hitting the people in front.

GM calipers, Hawk pads and DBA rotors. I'd switch to an aggressive pad and cheap stock blank rotor for track days.

Tobin & I have done a good bit of business together.
Once I have all the options laid out clearly, I will see what makes the most sense. Good brakes I consider to be generally a safety item but it's more needed for 1/4 mile passes. I horse around on the highway but I'm no 1320 video star.

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I've had very good luck with EBC pads. I run the Yellows on my Viper truck, and reds on my R/T. Hell I'm even going to throw a set of Reds on the front of my 2 Dolla Cavalier even though the pads are worth more then the car. Lol
I had EBC greens a while back. They were fine but the car was much slower then.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:13 AM   #22
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Rear brakes look normal.
Not trying to complicate things, but if it's nose diving maybe an adjustable prop valve would help?
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:22 AM   #23
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Here's an off the wall question: Are you breaking in the pads correctly?

See here: https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6443
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:47 AM   #24
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Ya might also consider cryogenically treating whatever new brake items you try. I've heard a lot of positive things due to the treatment.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:49 AM   #25
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Wilwood offers several options.

They have pads of several compounds for different applications as well as brake kits,

They have kits with different rotor sizes that will fit with 15 inch wheels.

If you go with a brake kit, regardless of manufacturer, I would stay away from cross drilled rotors. On vented rotor they tend to develop crack due to not having the insides chamfered.

Good luck
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