Getting my final plan together.

[WayFast84]

First off, i would just like to say, if you have no technical advice plz stay out of this thread. Im looking for advice from people who know their crap, Jon, JZJZ,bitchin camaro,tim,justin,jr etc.

second.

My goal for the car, Street legal, can pass emisions, run on pump gas. Stock style suspension,stock sized tire. I would like to go as far into the 11's on motor as I can, with out needing a cage, and then when im ready for it I would like to hit 10.999 on nitrous with more safety things..

I would like to use the 400 sbc i allready have. and im on a tight budget.

I have to return my cylnder heads to summit, so If I need to I can return all of my things to get this right.

heads. Since im on a budget this is going to break or make this thing. what is the best head for 11's for the buck, double hump ,vortec, bowtie phase XX heads?

I thats all I can ask for now, and then once we get what heads will best fit my application we can move onto intake etc..

thank you alot, its greatly appreciated.

Matt

[j0n]

After doing my research for my potential project I would say that a carbed lt1 would be the way to go. you can pick up a complete longblock for 2-300 dollars, freshen up the bottom end for another couple hundred(bearings/rings), and spring for either an AI or LE ported head/cam setup(1500-2000 for 400+rwhp), carbed intake manifold for another hundred and change, carburetor, distributor etc and have a VERY strong AND STREETABLE runner for relatively cheap. IMO it's going to take ALOT of high-dollar parts to get a streetable gen1 engine into that sort of power range

[NJSPEEDER]

to get 11's out of your car with the 400 motor i would suggest jsut looking for some good stock castings. on displacement alone the engine will make good power to get the car rolling and the rest of the job can be done with some basic chassis prep.
look around for a set of 882 castings. they are a big valve, big chamber head that will keep your compression pump gas friendly and still flow plenty to get teh job done.
look into a 274 or 284 extreme energy cam kit and a performer rpm/torker2/holley street dominator intake. drop a 750holley on top and you will have a combo that makes nice power, has a broad power band, a cool sounding idle, and certainly have enough to lay the smack down on any jackass ricer from school that gets bold.

just rememebr, most of an ET is in the chassis prep. for a goal like 11's on a street motor you need to think more about chassis and gearing than building a monster engine.

[BonzoHansen]

What heads are you returning, the vortecs? Why not just use those, you already have them? Maybe I missed something. Seems like those heads are pretty good.

Tim is on the $$ with chassis. Those cars flex like wet cardboard. At least you have a hard top (IIRC).

[Fast92RS]

I Agree you can build a 350 as well to get in the 11's but your gonna have to get your chassis set up to hook up to get you there. Which means gearing, SFC, etc. I rebuilt my entire suspension with Spohn and UMI parts and I can get my to hook up pretty well but I will see how well it does when I put my new engine in.

[NJSPEEDER]

for chassis i would look into some SFC's, a good torque arm, some boxed stock control arms, V6 springs all around, lakewood shocks and struts, and some 4.10 gears.
with a proper stall in the car and a smal drag radial that should be plenty to get the low 1.7 to mid 1.6ish short times you need to get the job done.
no need for a bunch of big dollar parts, jsut keep it simple and get it done. 8)

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by WayFast84

Im returning vortecs because I payed to much money just for an updated/stronger casting, and a .520 spring..

882 head, how often are those to come by? how much they run?

so subframe connectors, tq arm, LCA's drag radials are good?

I have a set, but they won't be available probably until next fall.

How much did you pay, and was that complete (springs, valves, etc)?

I'm just wondering how much a used set of heads will run you, plus machine work, plus new parts, etc.

[WayFast84]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I have a set, but they won't be available probably until next fall.

How much did you pay, and was that complete (springs, valves, etc)?

I'm just wondering how much a used set of heads will run you, plus machine work, plus new parts, etc.

$649 for both...ohh and theese heads flow like crap compaired to the gm ones, another major reason..

Im tempted to just put my motor in, get her runing and with the mmoney i saved get a t56.

Id be happy with a 12.5 second car, if it could handle real good. so basically I want a fun car..

hows umi?

[Mike]

umi = excelent

[bad64chevelle]

I have a set of camel hump heads off my 327, but dont know how far that would help you. I would agree to set the motor up to run decently, and make sufficient power, but worry more about a good trans, rear, and suspension setup.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by bad64chevelle

I have a set of camel hump heads off my 327, but dont know how far that would help you. I would agree to set the motor up to run decently, and make sufficient power, but worry more about a good trans, rear, and suspension setup.

your camel hump heads probably dont have accessory holes drilled in them.

FWIW, I would rather run vortecs than camel hump heads. there is a reason they dont make 'em like they used to

[Batman]

If you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for the vortec's? Take a look at Pace Performance for the best deals on Vortec's I have seen, and they come machined with steam holes. Tim is right that the 882's would be an excellent match up but beware of machine work. It can run up the cost a ton AND screw up your compression ratio so if you go with used heads don't buy pistons until they are machined and ready to go. The biggest thing for ET is going to be your suspension, HP is what gets you high MPH but ET is almost entirely in the first 60Ft of the track. Ordinarily I would say stay away from adjustable partsand keep it simple but with an 84 the rear is probably going to need some squaring up so get the adjustable panhard bar and LCA's. If you are on a tight budget I would skip the adjustable torque arm, it is an awesome tool but will probably only net you a few hundreths on a mostly street car and costs double then a standard tranny MT non-adjustable. Having had 4 different torque arms I can tell you for a street strip car I love my non-adjustable tranny MT arm and I can still cut 1.6XX's at the track. Just my opinion. Before you buy SFC's decide if you are going to get a roll bar/cage. (FYI you need a bar at 11.99 and a cage at 9.99). If you are putting in a roll bar I wouldn't bother with SFC's. If the bar is installed correctly it will do far more then SFC's and it will just be 20-30 less pounds on the car. If you don't know if you are doing abar then go ahead and get them. And my biggest piece of advice is to not get frustrated when you do start racing. VERY rarely does these things fall into place onthe first try. Once you get a good set-up under your car don't make any big changes and just keep practicing. When iwas gunning for 11's I had a set-up that was running high 12's with good MPH and I knocked off .7 just from practicing and not changing anything. Working on the driver/car relationship is going to be the biggest speed mod you can do and it doesn't cost anything.

[WayFast84]

edit $649 for vortecs, but I cant afford a carb,stall,or tc lock up..I need used vortecs but it just seems no ones selling them right now

do 882's have any special name? what years did they come from, how much they run?

ok i think Im gonna go with all umi suspension parts, one person told me they are good, no negatives, and they are the cheapest LCA's,tq arm.

If you where in my posisition with a rebuilt 700r4, that is probably going to blow up with the power of my engine, should i get the matched stall, and what can i do to make my tranny last on the cheap?

[Fast92RS]

Originally Posted by WayFast84

Im returning vortecs because I payed to much money just for an updated/stronger casting, and a .520 spring..

882 head, how often are those to come by? how much they run?

so subframe connectors, tq arm, LCA's drag radials are good?

Becareful wtih drag radials or slicks at first. I would spend some money on the rear first like moser axles, better case, diff. cover and gears. That is the week link. If you make good power with your engine and use slicks with the stock rear you will definetly break the rear. You can spend a little money to beef up the stock rear or just go all out and get a 9" or 12 bolt rear. I would try beefing up the stock rear for the time beaing.

[BonzoHansen]

If I understand correctly, 882s:

No fancy names like vortec or camel humps.

[Batman]

You probably won't be able to beat $649 you paid for those Vortecs. If you get used heads you shouldn't just bolt them on. They are going to at least need to be cleaned up and checked and probably need a valve job, seats, springs, valve locks, retainers maybe valves, milling and you should really get them hot tanked and magnafluxed before you use them to do it correctly. Used heads aren't necessarily the better deal just cause you can get them for $100.00. Nothing would be worse then bolting on a set that isn't re-worked and having them piss coolant everywhere because they aren't flat or worse cracked. I would return your heads and get these

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...D&ProdID=67722

....to save yourself some extra money. They outflow the bowtie heads out of the box. You can beat them for the price, just check what springs come on them, I think they are good for .550" lift

[WildBillyT]

My 0.02:

Be careful with 882s. A lot of them were smogger heads that are crack prone with small valves and big 76cc chambers and press in studs. I've thrown away 3 garbage sets of them myself.

You will be hard pressed to hit low 11s with a Gen I 350 NA on your budget while keeping a lot of streetability. I'm not saying it can't be done, but that a 350 combo that will peform like this is can't be just slapped together.

Personally, I'd do a Vortec headed 400. Air Gap manifold, Holley 750, big hydraulic flat tappet cam. If you want to spray it then you should spring for forged pistons. TRW/Speed Pro makes some that are pretty affordable. Yes, you can spray on cast pistons but (to be frank) you really need a safety net on this stuff while you are learning.

If you want to run 11s with no bar then your max is an 11.50. To make your tranny or rear last on the cheap you should just run regular street radials. No slicks, no drag radials, no fat ass radials.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Batman

You probably won't be able to beat $649 you paid for those Vortecs. If you get used heads you shouldn't just bolt them on. They are going to at least need to be cleaned up and checked and probably need a valve job, seats, springs, valve locks, retainers maybe valves, milling and you should really get them hot tanked and magnafluxed before you use them to do it correctly. Used heads aren't necessarily the better deal just cause you can get them for $100.00. Nothing would be worse then bolting on a set that isn't re-worked and having them piss coolant everywhere because they aren't flat or worse cracked. I would return your heads and get these

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...D&ProdID=67722

....to save yourself some extra money. They outflow the bowtie heads out of the box. You can beat them for the price, just check what springs come on them, I think they are good for .550" lift

What is the difference between these & the ones he has, the steam holes? How much does that cost to do, and how much does it cost to return the other ones (shipping, restock fee, etc.)?

[johnjzjz]

i have these 882s they were installed never fired and removed, they have been decked flat, ( SO their not warped ) 3 angle valve job all the valves cut as well - not back cut but i will do that if you want ( back cutting is a roundy trick for more off the corners a low end power thing ) NO steam holes but i will drill them as well 400 motor - trick for heat transfer - the valve guides are perfect and were machined for high lift cam 500/600 lift ( spring seats sized for 1.400 springs i think ) and than converted to PC seals as well, ( top of valve guide cut down to accept a conventional type PC valve seal ) also machined rocker stud base and drilled and taped for 7/16 screw in rocker studs for use with pushrod guide plates, have 15 studs for roller rockers and one for stock rocker assembly, maybe some one has a single 3/8 top 7/16 bottom see picture - i think i have the springs and the light weight racing type retainers / keys as well -- can set the spring height and pressure to your cam or i have cams but mine are all solid flat tappet -- what i would use is a crane for a 406 is a 518 536 - 240 250 on a 106 CL real bumpy makes power 2500 to 5800 in a 400 motor but might not want to go through inspection -- the ports have not been modded ( no extra port work ) no cracks stripped threads or anything else -- this was a sweet set that 800 bucks was spent on them -- i will look for the rest of the parts for them if you think this is the way you want to go ( couple hundred to you for your project charging you only for the additional labor ) Heads are free and the real good used cam is free as well if you choose to go that way -- i can if you send me the info on the motor you have, i will plot it on the shops dyno computer and tell you approx what kind of power to expect -- PLEASE note : your like 14 i think so one of the guys from njfboa will have to pick this stuff up for you when its done -- their are a couple that will help you out i am sure -- i remember being very young and not having any idea and no way to learn, this is my contribution to your project -- any one else have something step up its a club -- i think he could use a performer RPM , 850 carb , HEI dist , alloy tall valve covers , blaster coil , set of good used 3/8 roller rockers --- just let me know ask who ever No hurry on my end i pulled them out today and will look for the other stuff if you will be taking them -- jz

[WayFast84]

john if i what I thought I read was what I read, you are a true gentleman and racer, I dont know anything much about the motor, but If I get one head off and take a picture of the piston would that give you a better idea?

thanks,
Matt

[BonzoHansen]

John = gentleman.

[johnjzjz]

Originally Posted by WayFast84

john if i what I thought I read was what I read, you are a true gentlemen and racer, I don't know anything much about the motor, but If I get one head off and take a picture of the piston would that give you a better idea?

thanks,
Matt

i guess your not taking it apart than -- the difference everyone is talking about is compression, the 882s are of the low type 9-to 1 w/ 400 type motor so you can street drive it all the time and not have high engine temps pinging and alike -- 400s run hot they are thin castings, but give up real good power, it is a good choice - but you will need a rev limiter they don't like high engine speeds over 5500 -- ( the connecting rod is too short ) some guys liked it because it snapped off the top of the block and you can grind a special cam but not what you are doing -- it will go faster in the next gear short shifting it at 5000 than reving it higher -- do you get that -- lots of torque = 400 motor - let me know -- photo is of a 400 with a 64cc head and cast stock pistons and too much timing

[WayFast84]

thats the motor..

how much do rev limitiers run? msd makes them right?

[johnjzjz]

what is the head # you have ??? msd makes a rev limiter yes -- and block # on the back buy the trans -- those are dished pistons about 1/2 point off our # and what you have looks very clean ???///

[WayFast84]

the blocks a 509. I dont know the head, its a 72 cc though. Thats clean? i thought it looked bad...