my lt1 valvetrain plan... - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

black95maro · 01-21-2008, 07:47 PM

hey guys, so i did some research on my valvetrain options and this is what I came up with, I'm planning to build up my lt1 before i put it in...
-CC305 cam (cca-07-305-8)
-Crane gold race rrs 1.6 (crn-10758-16)
-Comp valve springs (cca-26-918-16)
-Comp retainers (cca-787-16)
-Comp valve locks (cca648-16)

thats all i have for now. The rockers are on they're way. the guy i'm getting my engine from has the cam he's selling to me for $150 any opinions on this? anyone have springs/retainer/locks for sale? thanks

ar0ck · 01-21-2008, 07:48 PM

Don't buy USED CAMS!

black95maro · 01-21-2008, 08:05 PM

not used. he bought it for the engine but never used it, atleast thats what he says....

bad64chevelle · 01-21-2008, 08:34 PM

This should be in the Engine section, and probably the second part in the classifieds section.

01-22-2008, 01:18 PM

yeah i wouldnt take someones word for it, besides i would buy a custom cam but thats just me. go bigger then the CC305

Pampered-Z · 01-22-2008, 03:20 PM

Roller cams don't ware like older flat tapet cams. As long as you inspect it you should be OK, also make sure you put the lifters back on the same holes.

You better double check your parts. Aren't the 787 LS1 retainers? For LT1s I've used the
795 retainers, which are only in 10 degree. These give you a +50 to get the correct install height (1.75-1.80), but you may not be able to use SA rockers are they will ride on the retainer, not the valve tip. So you also need NSA, guide plates and hardened push rods.

Since you're near 550 lift, (544 lift W/1.6 rockers). I'd suggest looking at something like the Crane 10308 kit ( dual springs). I'd double check with Crane, but I think they're good for your lift and fit the heads without needing machining.

But if you want Beehives, look at the following parts:

614-16 Locks +.50
4705-16 Locators
795-15 Retainers +.50
503-16 Valve seals
47530 Shims

Also make sure you check the spring install height on every valve. Few cases we had to shim allot of them to get them all at the right height on stock heads.

JB

black95maro · 01-22-2008, 06:45 PM

the guy I'm getting the engine from agreed to install whatever valve train parts i bring. the rrs are on the way he said he has the cam and some lt4 springs and retainers but i read they aren't that great so i want to upgrade. pampered, those part numbers are what he suggested to me. I'm still trying to learn this stuff! the pn you gave me for the springs has retainers that come with it! that looks pretty good to me...

JSPERFORMANCE · 01-23-2008, 07:22 AM

Unless you have a machinist's lathe or a cam holding fixture how are you planning to inspect the cam for runout?

Pampered-Z · 01-23-2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black95maro

the guy I'm getting the engine from agreed to install whatever valve train parts i bring. the rrs are on the way he said he has the cam and some lt4 springs and retainers but i read they aren't that great so i want to upgrade. pampered, those part numbers are what he suggested to me. I'm still trying to learn this stuff! the pn you gave me for the springs has retainers that come with it! that looks pretty good to me...

Don't try to use the LT4 springs, They can't handle the 544 lift, you'll go into coil bind.

black95maro · 01-23-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

Don't try to use the LT4 springs, They can't handle the 544 lift, you'll go into coil bind.

i know i'm upgrading. so I think i'm gunna get the 10308 springs and retainers set you suggested. assuming i do, can i use the same 614-16 Locks? what are NSA and guide plates? i'm looking at comp hardened pushrods so thats no big deal. what else do you suggest? i really need to learn this stuff! thanks for the help by the way! much appreciated!

Pampered-Z · 01-23-2008, 11:13 AM

The kit contains all the hardware, springs, retainers, locks and shims, and you reuse the stock locators. If the heads are used then I would replace the valve seals while you have the springs off ( part # listed previously ).

I check with Crane and those springs set at 1.80 install height will have no problem with you 544 lift.

As far as Rockers, there are two basic types for our cars, Self-Align and non SA. A self Aligning has the body of the rocker designed so that it used the tip of the valve to keep it centered. This is good, but with certain retainers or very high lift cams the rocker body can actually hit the retainer. This could result on all kinds of issues up to a catastrophic failure!

A NSA rocker has no such prevision, so a guide plate is installed and it uses the pushrod to keep the rocker centered, in this case you must use a hardened pushrod.

hardened pushrod are stronger and a good upgrade with SA rockers. No need to go extreem with the $100+ ones if you don't want. Comp makes a stock replace hardened for about $40.

The pic below shows the two types of rockers, you can see the SA rocker on the left the roller is above the rocker body and the two guides ( that look like washers on each side of the roller ) keep the rocker centered. The NSA rocker on the right has no such prevision.

The pic below is the guide plates. They install under the rocker arm stud and extend out around the pushrod to keep it centered.

black95maro · 01-23-2008, 08:42 PM

wow i understand. awesome pics and all! ok so i have a set of crane gold sa rrs (10758) on the way, so are you suggesting i don't use them? because i heard good things about them... the nsa way seems safer and seems to be cheaper. but did you say the self adjusting ones won't work because they'll be riding on the retainer not the valve tip? so my list of things to buy is now,
-10308 springs and retainers set
-comp hardened pushrods
-503-16 Valve seals
maybe selling the sa and getting nda and guide plates?

Pampered-Z · 01-24-2008, 12:50 PM

No, self aligning are 100% fine to use, as long as you don't have clearance problems. You just need to check.

it's really not about better/safer, just you need to use all the right parts. There are advantages to the NSA such as lighter valve train, but on a basically stock motor you're not going to see any real advantage by switching.

Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear about why I got into the SA vrs NSA rockers..

Since you already have the cam and rockers, you really just need to select the valve springs/retainers that will work with the parts you already have. And your original post about using beehive springs BUT with the correct LT1 retainers would not work. Which is why I suggested different springs. And the economic hardened pushrods are a nice upgrade while installing the other parts.

BUT, If you do want to run the beehive springs, then you MUST change to the NSA rockers, guideplate and hardened pushrods, but in this case I would use the higher grade (and more expensive) pushrod.

Here the link to the full cam install if you want to look at other part numbers etc. My only suggestion is to use the proper hub install tool, our's was a few hundered miles away! One day I'll find time to document all the steps, bolt sizes and torque specs! This is how I found out beehives and SA rockers don't mix on an LT1.

http://www.97transam.com/97ta-cam.php

ar0ck · 01-24-2008, 12:59 PM

I have Comp Pro Mag 1.52 RR's and I needed to clearance my valve covers for them just so be aware of that too.

black95maro · 01-26-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

No, self aligning are 100% fine to use, as long as you don't have clearance problems. You just need to check.

it's really not about better/safer, just you need to use all the right parts. There are advantages to the NSA such as lighter valve train, but on a basically stock motor you're not going to see any real advantage by switching.

Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear about why I got into the SA vrs NSA rockers..

Since you already have the cam and rockers, you really just need to select the valve springs/retainers that will work with the parts you already have. And your original post about using beehive springs BUT with the correct LT1 retainers would not work. Which is why I suggested different springs. And the economic hardened pushrods are a nice upgrade while installing the other parts.

BUT, If you do want to run the beehive springs, then you MUST change to the NSA rockers, guideplate and hardened pushrods, but in this case I would use the higher grade (and more expensive) pushrod.

Here the link to the full cam install if you want to look at other part numbers etc. My only suggestion is to use the proper hub install tool, our's was a few hundered miles away! One day I'll find time to document all the steps, bolt sizes and torque specs! This is how I found out beehives and SA rockers don't mix on an LT1.

http://www.97transam.com/97ta-cam.php

ok i see what your saying. so do you suggest i go with the 10308 springs and retainers set being the crane sa rockers should be here within the next few hours?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar0ck

I have Comp Pro Mag 1.52 RR's and I needed to clearance my valve covers for them just so be aware of that too.

ok so do you think i should just get some taller valve covers?

ar0ck · 01-27-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black95maro

ok so do you think i should just get some taller valve covers?

Unless your running a relocated altenator, the taller valve covers that you would normally find at the store won't work. LT1 valve covers are notched on the passenger side to fit the stock location of the rather large alternator. If you have a few hundred bucks extra laying around you could get Canton valve covers.

You'll be able to get away with just doing a good clearance job on the valve covers. Theres arches that go along the top that you can cut out with a dremel, just make sure you clean the valve covers with brake cleaner or something strong before re-installing them.

Pampered-Z · 01-28-2008, 03:14 PM

yes, with the 10308 and keep those rocker arms.

Rockers may clear the fins inside the valve covers, if not just cut out the section as shown in the link I posted.

black95maro · 01-28-2008, 05:17 PM

awesome thanks again alex i'll check that out, and pampered, are you john? did i meet you at chilies? I'm pretty sure i spoke to you there, could be wrong...

Tru2Chevy · 01-28-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black95maro

pampered, are you john? did i meet you at chilies? I'm pretty sure i spoke to you there, could be wrong...

Yea, Pampers = John (with the GMC pickup)

- Justin

Pampered-Z · 01-29-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black95maro

awesome thanks again alex i'll check that out, and pampered, are you john? did i meet you at chilies? I'm pretty sure i spoke to you there, could be wrong...

Yup, I rode shotgun in the Jeff's white camaro....

black95maro · 01-29-2008, 05:22 PM

member me? i had the black 4th gen with 2 stock wheels and two cragars

Pampered-Z · 01-30-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black95maro

member me? i had the black 4th gen with 2 stock wheels and two cragars

Sure do. Is your crew heading to Chevys fior the Feb meet (2/12)

black95maro · 01-30-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

Sure do. Is your crew heading to Chevys fior the Feb meet (2/12)

more then likely. I'll talk to you then!

black95maro · 04-18-2008, 06:37 AM

hate to bring back my old thread but it's better then making a whole new one, i'm debating which cam i should get either the cc305 or the crane 227? i have Crane gold race rrs 1.6 (crn-10758-16) and Crane double valve spring kit (crn-10308 )
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Pampered-Z · 04-18-2008, 07:49 PM

I'm not a big fan of the 227, only a touch more then the hot cam. And since your using unported heads go with the 305 cam ( 305-12A cam, it's on a 112 LSA, the standard is 114 LSA). And if you're putting in a cam might as well give the idle a little lope.

The 305 has more duration and you'll need that to help air flow, the 227 with only 210 duration will have a bit more low end torque, but it's going to start to run out of air at 5000 RPMS and probably be out of steam by 5500. The 305 will pull nicely from about 2800 right up to 6000 RPMs.

227 = 210/224, .510 / .552 112

305 = 220/230, .544 / .544 112

just want to throw this out: If you plan to do a convertor, gears ( maybe ported heads some day?) Then you might also want to look at this cam:

Comp 224/230. Has just slightly more intake duration then the 305, but has more agressive ramp angles. With 1.6 rockets it will be 224 / 230, .533 / .544 112 LSA. Because of the ramp angles this cam is going to have more lope at idle and probably a small bit ot surge, but it will pull even harder in the upper RPMs.