Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar
Go Back   NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds > Tech Forums > Engine / Power / Tuning

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2022, 07:16 PM   #476
IROCZman15
10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
IROCZman15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Roxbury, NJ
Posts: 1,999
iTrader: (7)
thanks matt. I'm digging it too. I'm going to take the car for a drive tomorrow and bust out the laptop too to get the tune stuff lined up if it needs it.
adam- I'm probably not going to do an alignment because these wheels will basically only be used for the drive to/from the dragstrip and while making passes. Since I did the alignment last year with the new Falken tires on the street/show/autocross wheels, its pretty well dialed in and I don't want to mess with it. You do bring up a good point though, and I am curious to see how it drives and street manners.
__________________
1987 IROC-Z - modified

IROCZman15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2022, 08:08 PM   #477
IROCZman15
10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
IROCZman15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Roxbury, NJ
Posts: 1,999
iTrader: (7)
Took the car out this afternoon, but whew there was a lot of people on the road so didn't get crazy. Made some adjustments to the idle in the driveway, and with the new placement of the oxygen sensors they are able to get a better more uniform reading of each bank.. but especially I am able to have a more accurate idle and I did NOT come home smelling like exhaust fumes which was a common occurrence these past two years. Still will need some tuning at WOT because I was seeing AFR numbers in 11s, 10,s and occasional 9s when I would get heavy on the pedal. Obviously it lacked power there too and I felt it. I'll see what I need to do to get that dialed in, but the exhaust/muffler is opening up and getting a nice louder sound to it. I know I have fouled plugs from all the quick on/off cold starts over the winter but I actually didn't expect really rich AFR numbers when doing the exhaust project; in fact I expected leaner afr numbers instead. Next drive I will take more datalogs, but the ones I took show some pretty heavy CL comp negative numbers (pulling fuel out) while still being rich. Light blue line is target AFR, pink line is actual AFR, and yellow line is CL comp%. I'll dig into it soon. Learn table data said it was Adding fuel at these rpms too!





.

All coolant temps and numbers were good on the dashboard. Had between 30-40 psi of oil pressure at hot idle, and right between 65-70 when on the throttle. Still running that winter 10-30 thin oil for another week and then I will switch back to the 20-50 VR1 for the rest of the year. The drivers side (holley) afr readings are about half a point leaner than the passenger side (AEM wideband) numbers. I think I am probably a little low on trans fluid too and might need a slight adjustment of the TV-cable, but will check that out. The new rear wheels handled just fine along with the skinnies. No rubbing from anything in the front or the back. Put some air in the rear drag bags too and the rear suspension was quite firm, so I'll tone it down if needed, but I don't plan on doing frequent road driving with these wheels on either. Took a few photos too.

oil pressure at idle:



..and oil pressure at moderate throttle:









__________________
1987 IROC-Z - modified


Last edited by IROCZman15; 03-07-2022 at 05:50 PM.
IROCZman15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2022, 05:53 AM   #478
LTb1ow
Mongo the Meet Coordinator
 
LTb1ow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,772
iTrader: (8)
I would change plugs prior to transferring any learn over.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkEvil View Post
repo bigals turd gen and part it out to a loving home
LTb1ow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2022, 05:45 AM   #479
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 6,239
iTrader: (3)
Ditto on the new plugs. Looks great with the wheels/tires.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

18 CTS-V
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2022, 09:14 AM   #480
sweetbmxrider
Meet Coordinator
 
sweetbmxrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: brick/pt. pleasant beach
Posts: 19,290
iTrader: (12)
Wheel/tire setup does look good
__________________
sweetbmxrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 09:04 PM   #481
IROCZman15
10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
IROCZman15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Roxbury, NJ
Posts: 1,999
iTrader: (7)
It has been a while but I do have an update.
Despite the several times I wanted to go to the track in March and April, the repeated bad weather and rain-outs didn't allow my spring shakedown of the car to happen until just this past weekend. Even the swap meet I wanted to go to, got rained out. Anyways, prior to going, I had done some street driving and street rips with the car and was moderately "ok" with the AFR numbers I saw on both the Holley and the new AEM gauge. The car felt pretty slow on the street and I had done datalogs and tune revisions several times. Basically I would do a pull in 2nd or 3rd gear, and the car was real rich at tip-in and stayed that way while sloooowly climbing the rpms. Adjustments to the base table and AE were never really fully successful, so I went into the Test and Tune Friday night at Island Dragway with pretty low expectations . However, I knew that if I got a few actual WOT dragstrip passes, I could probably dial in the tune better. Jerry and my buddy John went to the track too, and Jerry brought the firebird. I had hoped to get about 5 runs on the night but that plan came to a halt when a huge oil down happen just after the first few sets of the cars went down the track. That cleanup took 1 hour and 50 minutes, so basically 2 hours of a 4 hour race night were gone and I didn't have a pass in yet, and temps were going down as well as track surface temperature.









Pass 1:

Finally got to make my first pass at 9:21pm, and it went pretty well surprisingly. I had set the brand new rear MT tires at 19.5 psi. Air bags were at 7psi drivers side and 11 psi passenger side. Rear shocks were both set at 4/5 so on the tighter side. After a 3.5 second burnout I footbraked the launch from 1109 rpms. Rear tires had a very slight slip, but then hooked and I shifted 1-2 at 6,490 rpms. rpms dropped to 4,816 in second gear and I shifted a bit early at 6195 rpms. Rpms dropped to 4,772 in 3rd gear and then I crossed the finish line at 6,069 rpms. I was targeting a 12.8 AFR in closed loop and total timing was 34.0 deg advances. The car felt good, and it didnt do anything funny, but I expected a low 12 second slip. Was certainly surprised to see an 11.78 e.t. at 115.7 mph, which is actually my fastest N/A pass to date (previously was 11.800 back in november 2021)
-Checked the datalog and was happy with what I saw, but knew I might only get 1 or two more runs in for the night. the fueling still went rich at the hit, like very rich (in open loop), but as soon as closed loop came on, it cleared it up and I looked over the CL comp numbers. I would love to get that rich dip out, but pulling fuel from the base table (open loop) and the AE functions still doesn't seem to help?

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EswZSWsQqP8



Timeslip:






Datalog:






Pass 2:

I was satisfied enough with that NA pass but I know I could improve on it NA later on in the coming weeks. Did not pull spark plugs, maybe I should have checked a few. I wanted to see how a nitrous pass would do and I had to decide if I should do a fixed 150 shot and see if it would hold the launch, OR do a progressive ramp. i decided to try the fixed 150 shot knowing if I got a 3rd pass I could load the progressive tune in and make adjustments if needed. Jerry jumped in the gamblers $ race and John was running his Envoy because his silver 3rd gen TransAm is still not up and ready. Jerry video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv-F-gifsWs

With the 150 shot tune loaded, I kept the shocks and air bags the same. I lowered the rear tire pressure from 19.5 to 18.0 psi. Did a 5 second burnout. I launched from a dead idle at 921 rpms. The nitrous came in withte full 150 shot mid way through 1st gear (as I set it to do) and it spun the tires. I pedaled it very quickly, got off the button, and then got back into it, shifting 1-2 shift at 6,611 rpms. The rpms dropped to 5,272 in second gear. Took second gear to 6,607 rpms and it dropped to 5,023 rpms in 3rd gear. Nitrous turns off at the shifts if I hit the hi-side 6,500 rpm limit I pre-set. I crossed through the finish line at 6,510 rpms which was just a fraction of a second after the nitrous clicked off.



Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpEYRY72Cp4


Timeslip:





Datalog:





pass 3:
I now knew that I would have to wait until another day to test the full nitrous launch, but I looked over the datalog and aside from the spin in 1st gear, I was happy enough with the AFR numbers that I saw. I target 12.4 afr on nitrous and the holley adjusts CL comp to this. My AEM gauge is usually a bit richer with the readings, in the 12.0-12.2 range if the holley is reading 12.5. (still not sure why..) So at this point in time, I am happy keeping the afr rich (safe) and then working from there as opposed to running it lean and dialing it back. I loaded the progressive 150 nitrous tune in, which ramps from 50%-->100% in 1.2 seconds (essentially spraying a 75 shot ramped to a 150 shot in 1.2 seconds; see below) I also increased the rpm rev-limiter for the nitrous cut-off to be at 6,700 rpms instead of the 6,500 rpms from last run. John advised I try the other lane and that I take more psi out of the rear tires so I brought them down to 17.0 psi.
- I did a decent burnout, but as I rolled to the line I did not see that the guy next to me had pulled way past the line and started staging with his back tires. At this point I was already staged, while they rolled him back. I probably could have rolled back out, but I decided to just stay where I was at. He finally got it sorted out and when the tree dropped I left from an approx 920 rpm idle again. I felt the tire slip (maybe like 1/3 of 1 rotation, not too much), but then it was allll good. unfortunately the datalog recorded very stupidly and it only has very strange intermittent data points. the log started recording normal, and even ended normal, but the whole middle, it only seemed to record about 1 data point every half second. So I have no data on shift points, rpms, fueling, closed loop compensation, or anything. That especially is sad, because this is data I wish i had for the future, because this turned out to be my best pass to date, with a 10.77 at 126.7 mph !


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUphOhmyzqk
-***- watch this video until the very end for a weird surprise as to what I saw happen!


Timeslip:



Datalog (if you can even call this nonsense a datalog?!?!)


(entire datalog) see how it starts and ends with LOTS of data points, but gets "dumb" ? what the heck is that about?!?1


progressive nitrous tune settings/limits/timing:


and






I did NOT expect any personal best timeslips during this shakedown-session , but I am ok with how it turned out. The personal goal I set over a decade for this car was mid-high 10s on nitrous and mid-high 11s on motor. If this car can pull a 10.55 timeslip at 130 mph, I will consider that as "goal accomplished", so I am hoping I can get there. Maybe on a day with a sticky track for a great launch (and wheelie) and i can up the jets to the 175 shot or the 200 shot. After hanging out with the fellas in the pits, I packed up and drove the car home, thumping into the garage at 12:30 am with a sense of relief that the car didn't do anything dumb after a big winter of garage work.






The next morning, with the tools removed from the car, I took it over to get an approximate "race weight" on the car at the local stone quarry's scale. With me in the car it weighed 3,620 pounds, which is heavier than last year. Later on in the day I switched the race wheels out, put the subwoofers and amplifier back in the car and weighed it in "street weight setup" to learn that it weighs 3,780 pounds with me in it.






While looking over the car remembered that I had heard a clunking noise from the back of the car when going over some bumps on turns. Soon noticed that it looks like the "roto-joint" end on the axle side of my UMI Panhard bar is experiencing some wear and clunking. It was hard for me to film it and shake the car at the same time, but you get the idea
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmgMg8miHmI
I guess I will call/email them and see if it is salvageable, or if I need a new joint.
__________________
1987 IROC-Z - modified


Last edited by IROCZman15; 04-18-2022 at 09:40 PM.
IROCZman15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 07:53 AM   #482
sweetbmxrider
Meet Coordinator
 
sweetbmxrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: brick/pt. pleasant beach
Posts: 19,290
iTrader: (12)
Nice passes! Congrats on the new bests, too.
__________________
sweetbmxrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2022, 11:09 AM   #483
townsend
 
townsend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: harmony, nj (phillipsburg)
Posts: 441
iTrader: (0)
nice work!
__________________
1994 Firebird Formula - Injuneer's car
1995 Firebird Formula - has THAT LT1 in it
2021 Charger Scat
2021 Durango R/T Tow n Go

Wrench/driver 94 Camaro Ellwein 385/D1SC/CPT 4l60e/9" slow pile
townsend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2022, 11:21 AM   #484
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 6,239
iTrader: (3)
Can't argue with progress. Nice work! 10.50's aren't far away!!
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

18 CTS-V
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2022, 08:02 PM   #485
IROCZman15
10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
IROCZman15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Roxbury, NJ
Posts: 1,999
iTrader: (7)
thanks guys. I'll keep on chipping away at it. Hopefully some more Test-n-tune and I can get the timeslip I've been after for a long time.
the car is running pretty darn good on the street too, and I put about 80 miles on it last weekend.


- I emailed UMi abotu the loose roto-joint on the panhard bar. They advised that it most likely just needed to be disassembled and then I could tighten up the outer face of the adjuster and snug up the set screw. I did that, and t fixed it right up! awesome


I am thinking that I might go to the Nostalgia Spring event this upcomign Sunday May 1st at Island Dragway.
https://www.islanddragway.com/events/list/
Since I have yet to make a set of consistent nitrous passes, I would probably be better off just running the car N/A since it has become pretty consistent that way, and maybe I could go a few rounds in the N2 (10.00-11.99) class?
__________________
1987 IROC-Z - modified

IROCZman15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2022, 09:30 PM   #486
IROCZman15
10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
IROCZman15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Roxbury, NJ
Posts: 1,999
iTrader: (7)
I went over to the Nostalgia Spring Event at Island Dragway on Sunday May 1. Lots of cars were there and the weather was good almost all of the day until 6pm. Jerry was there with his firebird, and I had already decided to run all motor for the bracket-race event because the car is much more consistent that way at this point in the game. We got two time-shots (test runs) so I did one in each lane.
I have in-car video footage, and it had audio with it, but I think when I clipped the videos to length I didn't click the button for retaining the audio.. so that stinks, no sound. Sorry.


Pass 1: (test pass)
Footbraked the launch from a dead idle and launched at 966 rpms. Shifted 1-2 at 6,571 rpms and 2-3 at 6,386 rpms and going across the finish line at 5,949 rpms. Felt good, and turned out to be my best NA pass to date by a little bit. Track photographer snapped a photo of the leave, and the rear squat is looking much better with the air-bags and these taller tires... but it was nothing dramatic for a launch photo. .




Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNgIE0JluEE

Timeslip:



Datalog :




Pass 2: (test pass)
After looking at the learn data and datalog, I was happy and left everything with the tune alone... in fact I just re-used the same tune as pass 1.
Car felt slower, and timeslip confirmed it, but not by too much. I think engine temp, air temp, and heat soak to the sniper tbi were a factor. Footbrake launch from 1741 rpms. Shifted 1-2 at 6,564, shifted 2-3 at 6,596 and finished at 5,931 rpms.

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqQvrPVv76g

Timeslip:


Datalog:





Pass 3: (Round 1 Eliminations)
Chatted with Jerry and some other racing guys about what to do. I think I over-estimated how much I would want/need to slow the car down, so it was probably my mistake by dialing in an 11.85. My thought process was that I could tap the brakes if I was too far out ahead. Instead, I left way late on the tree, and around the 1100 foot mark the car int he other lane blew past me. I had actually just started to get off the throttle (see green colored dip on datalog, that is the the Throttle position sensor), but then when he passed me I got right back on the throttle thinking I was going to now be wayyy slow. Instead, I was still well below my dial-in and got knocked out.
- Footbrake launched at from 1828 rpms. 1-2 shift was at 6,623 rpms and I tagged the rev limiter just a bit. 2-3 shift was 6,583 rpms and I crossed the line at 5,933 rpms which was weird because I had gotten out of the throttle just one second prior.


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUnwVphrTi4

Timeslip:



Datalog:






Pass 4: (test pass on nitrous)
I spoke to the track staff and as the event was winding down to a close (and the weather radar was showing a big rain storm coming right at us) I waited for more competition rounds to go on. When there was a break in the action, I did a solo test pass. I have been curious to move beyond the 150 nitrous shot, so I put in my home-math calculations for the 175 horsepower nitrous jets. I also knew that the track prep was great and the starting line should be great. but I didn't want to put a fixed 175 shot on the launch. So , I did a progressive ramp from 50% (of 175 hp) to 100% (of 175 hp) over the course of 1.4 seconds.
- I footbraked the launch and left at 2,032 rpms. I had the nitrous programmed to come on at 2,800 rpms and when it did, I felt the front drivers side wheel come up and then touch back down to the ground. The launch was great and was the best 60 foot I have had to date. In fact, everythign about the pass was the best to date, especially 106 mph in the 8th mile and the 10.601 e.t. Anyways, first gear ran up quick and it was on the rev limiter faster than I could react to, so I lost a little bit there, but I shifted 1-2 at 6,641. The 2-3 shift was at 6,536 rpms and I went through the finish line at 6,571 rpms. It felt fast, especially the first half of hte track. Was bittersweet to see my timeslip, because I was hioping that it was the 10.5x second pass I have been working towards, but instead it was just supppperrrr close to it. However, that means that I now know a 10.5x pass is possible. Mayyybe not a 130 mph speed though.
- I was pretty stoked about the 1-wheel in the air launch, but sadly, by this late hour in the day, the track photographers were long gone so I only have the dashcam footage (with no audio sadly) ad you can see the hood shake a little bit as the tire came down. But there was this video from the bleachers with audio, and I actually think the car sounds damn good with the true sound of just one small block chevy with a full muffled exhaust system and on nitrous going down the track.


Video (in car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzFt4zYqYks


spectators video:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gwdetMeYnuQ


Timeslip:



Datalog:



I am pretty sure that I can now go back one day when the track prep is really good and the track photographer is there in order to get a photo of the car lifting a wheel (or 2) up at the launch. I also think the 175 shot will get me into the 10.5x territory, but if not I can put in the jets for a 200 shot and that should be it.
-as I was packing the car up, the sky grew dark and rain drops started. Yet, it didn't rain too hard and I had a pretty easy drive home. Good times indeed. the car seems happy too.
__________________
1987 IROC-Z - modified

IROCZman15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2022, 06:16 AM   #487
sweetbmxrider
Meet Coordinator
 
sweetbmxrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: brick/pt. pleasant beach
Posts: 19,290
iTrader: (12)
Awesome, Dave. Glad the car is performing well. Hard work is paying off now
__________________
sweetbmxrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2022, 07:41 AM   #488
Blackbirdws6
Lord of the rings / 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator
 
Blackbirdws6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 6,239
iTrader: (3)
Getting closer!!! Spray it all.
__________________

97 T/A Ram Air Convt
Forever dyno queen / 777rwhp 662 rwtq @ 17lbs / 10.2 @ 140

18 CTS-V
17 Sierra 2500HD Dmax
81 Turbo TA
Blackbirdws6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds > Tech Forums > Engine / Power / Tuning

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Sponsor List














All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.