electrical nightmare incarnate - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

89CamaroRS · 09-04-2007, 03:42 PM

ok, i've been working on getting my 89 RS v8 conversion wired properly. i've finally got everything engine-wise powered and working. but now i have the same problem that made me start the conversion in the first place. randomly one day when the v6 was still in it, i hit the starter and nothing happened; not even a soleniod click. but the water temp gauge tached almost hard enough to break the needle (never happened before). all other electrics worked then and work now.

i thought it was the starter so i said to hell with it and started the conversion. now it's doin the same thing with all the new stuff in it.

i just dug the ignition switch out of the steering colume. it's got a few wiggly pins but looks fairly new. i'm gonna replace it tomorrow anyway just to rule it out. if that doesn't fix the problem, does anyone have any other suggestions on what to look at? i know the starter is good(i drove the vette into place right before i started the swap) and it's wired just as it was in the vette. if a new ignition switch doesn't solve the problem (and i'm not very confident in it based on the fact that it looks like the owner before me replaced fairly recently) i'm completely stumped. wiring is my shakiest car topic so please, wiring gods, treat me like i know nothing.

WildBillyT · 09-04-2007, 04:06 PM

Well, I would start by checking for bad grounds and maybe a bad temp sender. I know if the fuel sender isn't properly grounded or bad it will peg the gauge.

camaro2you · 09-04-2007, 08:12 PM

that is screaming neutral safety switch.

Tru2Chevy · 09-04-2007, 08:32 PM

Will, what happens when you jump the starter manually?

- Justin

89CamaroRS · 09-05-2007, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Well, I would start by checking for bad grounds and maybe a bad temp sender. I know if the fuel sender isn't properly grounded or bad it will peg the gauge.

Thx, I'm pretty sure i've got everything grounded well but i'll go back over them today. And actually I'm pretty sure(will check) the temp sender isn't connected...so the gauge shouldn't be getting any signal at all, correct?

and would a bad ground in a sending unit be enough to completely short the starter's power?

89CamaroRS · 09-05-2007, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro2you

that is screaming neutral safety switch.

As in the switch in the consol that kills the starter if the car's not in park? this is my first f-body so where would i find that switch?

camaro2you · 09-05-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

As in the switch in the consol that kills the starter if the car's not in park? this is my first f-body so where would i find that switch?

Yup its in the center console, its bolted right to the shifter, youll see a bunch of wires going ot it.

WildBillyT · 09-05-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

Thx, I'm pretty sure i've got everything grounded well but i'll go back over them today. And actually I'm pretty sure(will check) the temp sender isn't connected...so the gauge shouldn't be getting any signal at all, correct?

and would a bad ground in a sending unit be enough to completely short the starter's power?

No, a bad ground would not do that. But it would explain a wacky temp gauge.

89CamaroRS · 09-05-2007, 01:59 PM

Just got the new ignition switch in, same problem. the neutral safety switch is on order, should have it tomorrow. I also just noticed today that in addition to the temp gauge gettin pegged, the e-brake light comes on when i hit the starter as well. that mean anything to you guys?

camaro2you · 09-05-2007, 03:37 PM

its been a while but i think my brake light used to come on along with my temp gauge pegging when the neutral safety was on the fritz.

Tru2Chevy · 09-05-2007, 08:47 PM

Will - answer my question. Will the car crank if you jump the posts on the starter?

- Justin

89CamaroRS · 09-06-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Will - answer my question. Will the car crank if you jump the posts on the starter?
- Justin

my bad justin, starter cranks as it should with power to the ignition post.

Tru2Chevy · 09-06-2007, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

my bad justin, starter cranks as it should with power to the ignition post.

OK....then NSS is a pretty good assumption. I don't remember the two pins to jump it, but I can check tomorrow for you if you want.

- Justin

89CamaroRS · 09-06-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

OK....then NSS is a pretty good assumption. I don't remember the two pins to jump it, but I can check tomorrow for you if you want.

- Justin

thx man, i just put a hot wire to the ignition post (the main hot post has the hot from the battery already) and it cranked normally.

did you mean the two pins to bypass the nss or jump the starter?

89CamaroRS · 09-06-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro2you

its been a while but i think my brake light used to come on along with my temp gauge pegging when the neutral safety was on the fritz.

sweet, thx man. i'm headed to napa right now to pick it up. i'll let ya know tonight if it worked.

89CamaroRS · 09-06-2007, 01:09 PM

got the new nss in. still no change.

BonzoHansen · 09-06-2007, 02:25 PM

Let’s review – is this correct?

*This is a 1989 Camaro RS automatic car (before & after swap).
*No starter when key is in START. Starter will crank if jumped.
*Temp gauge pegs on START (how about RUN?). Temp sender isn't connected
*Brake light lights on START (how about RUN?)

It did this before swap, still does it now. So not really swap related?

Tried:
IGN switch
NSS

Quick thoughts:
*Does it have VATS? I have no experience with VATS and don’t know when it started.
*Does NSS have adjustment room?
*You have a manual w/wiring diagrams?
*Is there any kind of weird interlock or brake pedal switch that needs to be correct to start?
*Was the temp sensor bad before the swap? Was it hooked up then?
*What is battery voltage as mesured at battery with volt meter?

Edit: I found an 86 diagram via TGO. No vats, no brake switch or other type of circuit interrupt.

89CamaroRS · 09-06-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Let’s review – is this correct?

*This is a 1989 Camaro RS automatic car (before & after swap).
*No starter when key is in START. Starter will crank if jumped.
*Temp gauge pegs on START (how about RUN?). Temp sender isn't connected
*Brake light lights on START (how about RUN?)

It did this before swap, still does it now. So not really swap related?

Tried:
IGN switch
NSS

Quick thoughts:
*Does it have VATS? I have no experience with VATS and don’t know when it started.
*Does NSS have adjustment room?
*You have a manual w/wiring diagrams?
*Is there any kind of weird interlock or brake pedal switch that needs to be correct to start?
*Was the temp sensor bad before the swap? Was it hooked up then?
*What is battery voltage as mesured at battery with volt meter?

Edit: I found an 86 diagram via TGO. No vats, no brake switch or other type of circuit interrupt.

Yes, 89 RS auto now with carbed 350 rather than 2.8 FI.
Brake light and temp gauge do not light/peg in run position.
Before the swap the temp gauge would peg as it does now. didn't notice the brake light coming on then but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

Yes, it is a VATS equipped car.
Yes, the NSS does have adjustment room. I tried it in several different positions, no effect.
I have a 82-92 firebird chilton's manual with wiring diagrams, not for the maro though. so far most things have been the same.
No, the temp gauge did not function before the swap, (was hooked up) but the car ran fine until this thing with the starter happened.
I do not have a volt meter, but the battery is fairly new and was fully charged via a trickle charger before installation. Voltage gauge reads full 12 volts with key in RUN position.

camaro2you · 09-06-2007, 06:09 PM

Try bypassing the nss with a jumper wire, just completely disc the plug. If you need help finding out what wires let me know.

89CamaroRS · 09-06-2007, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro2you

Try bypassing the nss with a jumper wire, just completely disc the plug. If you need help finding out what wires let me know.

good idea. and yes, i'll definately need help with which wires to mess with. my whole goal with this swap from the beginning was 'dont start a fire', lol. god i hate electricity!

Tru2Chevy · 09-08-2007, 08:21 PM

I'm pretty sure that it's the two outside pins on the NSS. I can check mine if you need me to.

- Justin

89CamaroRS · 09-09-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

I'm pretty sure that it's the two outside pins on the NSS. I can check mine if you need me to.

- Justin

yeah, if u could do that i'd appreciate it. thx bud.

BonzoHansen · 09-09-2007, 11:46 PM

His NSS is not the issue. The wires are cold going to it. I'm guessing the VATS is doing it. No need to change the NSS wiring.

Tru2Chevy · 09-10-2007, 05:37 PM

Isn't vats controlled by the ECM...which is no longer in the car?

And doesn't Vats only stop power from going to the fuel pump? Meaning that the car will crank all day, but won't start?

- Justin

BonzoHansen · 09-10-2007, 08:11 PM

I got no power to the NSS. So it ain't that.

I never messed w/vats. But I just looked up the 89 diagram. It seems the 89 did not go through the ECM. So I think either A) a simple cut & ground or B) cut out the starter enable relay.

I actually like A, make that ground a toggle and you got your own starter interrupt.