Fram Oil Filters ftl!

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Funny I was talking to the guy that I bought the car from on another board and he now has a LQ4 LSX motor and it starting tapping as well. Come to find out he used a Fram filter his last oil change as well.

[Scrat's_Camaro]

christ wasnt there a recent test and a thread sayin that RP was great? im gonna just use amsoil in the show truck and pennzoil platnium in the car

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by Scrat's_Camaro

christ wasnt there a recent test and a thread sayin that RP was great? im gonna just use amsoil in the show truck and pennzoil platnium in the car

pennzoil is good if you like metal shavings and water in your oil

[Scrat's_Camaro]

wtf, amsoil all the way then lol

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Scrat's_Camaro

christ wasnt there a recent test and a thread sayin that RP was great? im gonna just use amsoil in the show truck and pennzoil platnium in the car

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

pennzoil is good if you like metal shavings and water in your oil

Originally Posted by Scrat's_Camaro

wtf, amsoil all the way then lol

Someone should make an oil thread debate and watch it go downhill, fast.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Someone should make an oil thread debate and watch it go downhill, fast.

F that. I'll lock it out of general principle. I think one of those has plagued every automotive message board on the Internet at one point, and has changed 0 opinions.

[LTb1ow]

Sooo I should resist the urge to make one with a poll?

[sweetbmxrider]

we kinda had one before with mobil 1. just go to bobistheoilguy.com and learn something, FROM EXPERTS!!!!!

[88Z-Man]

Hmm, been using Fram filters for 20 years on all types of cars with no problems.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Originally Posted by 88Z-Man

Hmm, been using Fram filters for 20 years on all types of cars with no problems.

Post was in regards to Ls1's. Never said they sucked for other cars.

[JL8Jeff]

Originally Posted by MonmouthCtyAntz

Post was in regards to Ls1's. Never said they sucked for other cars.

But do you have real proof they suck on LS1 cars? Different oil will cause the piston slap noise more than the filter will so you're making some big assumptions. It's really a personal preference when it comes to oil and filters just like headers and exhaust.

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

But do you have real proof they suck on LS1 cars? Different oil will cause the piston slap noise more than the filter will so you're making some big assumptions. It's really a personal preference when it comes to oil and filters just like headers and exhaust.

How about a review that they just generally suck?

This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are bonded in place using a thermal adhesive. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap. In practice these seem to leak, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you use this filter and have a noisy valve train at startup, the filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak when they should be closed. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.

Fram High Mileage HM8A

This is another trendy Fram filter. I don't see the Double Guard around anymore, as the Teflon craze has long gone out of style. The new trend in oil lately are these "high mileage" oils. It seems that Fram didn't want to be left out. This filter is a regular Fram Extra Guard filter with a plastic cartridge suspended inside the inner tube filled with some sort of goo. It is supposed to help those high mileage engines. The goo cartridge is on the clean side of the filter and is blocking the filter outlet. The oil can get around the cartridge, but it has to pass between it and the core tube which is a small gap. I don't know how long it takes for the goo to dissolve and I'd be concerned that it could exit the filter in a big glob. That could cause all kind of problems if an oil passage became blocked by this stuff. Even after the goo dissolves, the plastic cartridge will continue to block the oil flow exiting the filter. This may not be a problem for Fram however, since they employ such small oil inlet holes in the first place.

Leave the lubrication to the oil companies and the filtering to the filter companies.

And here is a letter from the production engineer from there.

ussell,
I obtained great satisfaction from reading your oil filter survey.

I worked for two years as the oil-filter production line engineer in
an Allied-Signal FRAM facility and I can confirm every bad thing you
have said about FRAM automotive filters. That's from the horse's
mouth, as it were.

I'm also a quality engineer and can confirm that FRAM applies no
quality control whatsoever to any of the characteristics for which we
buy oil filters. I frequently saw filter designs which were barely
capable of meeting J806. Many of FRAM's designs will block and go to
bypass after trying to filter very little contamination. There were
often leakage paths at the paper end discs when these were not
properly centered on the elements. Some designs had the pleats so
tightly packed against the center tube that they would block off in no
time. I had discovered that the FRAM HP1 that I had been buying for
about $20 Cdn was EXACTLY the same as a PH8 inside - the only
difference being a heavier can - no advantages in flow capacity. The
paper filtration media was of apparently poor quality and the process
of curing the paper resin was very inconsistent - elements would range
from visibly burnt to white. FRAM's marketers admitted that there was
just about no way the public could ever prove that an oil filter
contributed, or did not prevent, engine damage. The only thing FRAM
tested for was can burst strength. Another problem that they have from
time to time is in threading the filter base - often there are strands
of metal left behind on a poorly formed thread.

I have not used a FRAM filter since I started working there. Their
claims are entirely and completely marketing ********.

If people really want to protect their engines, a good air filter is
vital (which excludes FRAM from that list as well) and a combination
of one depth and one full-flow hydraulic filter, together in parallel,
will do the job of filtration to perfection.

Thanks for doing a great job in trying to get the truth out! You can
quote me anytime.

[name omitted to protect submitter]

http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar...ence.html#fram

I've never used their stuff, and never will - simply because I have not heard one person say that they make a decent filter, before I made up my opinion.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

But do you have real proof they suck on LS1 cars? Different oil will cause the piston slap noise more than the filter will so you're making some big assumptions. It's really a personal preference when it comes to oil and filters just like headers and exhaust.

I found several posts on ls1tech w/ guys having the same problem along w/ tests showing there flowrate...and like I said previously the guy that I bought my car from recently started to have the same problem on his LSX after using a Fram...The best proof imo is the one you see with your own eyes. If listed isnt enough then im not sure what is. Nor am I nieve enough to believe that it will happen on every LS1.

[91chevywt]

Fram spends more money on advertising than anything...making you believe they are good filters. In reality they have a small amount of filter media as compared to everyone else, and quality control is a big issue. I bought them because they were convienient and I thought they were good, then I started doing some research and found out they are basically the worst filter you can buy. I'm sure they were good in the past, but you know how things go when the wrong guys get in charge...trying to squeeze every penny out of the operation.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by 91chevywt

Fram spends more money on advertising than anything...making you believe they are good filters. In reality they have a small amount of filter media as compared to everyone else, and quality control is a big issue. I bought them because they were convienient and I thought they were good, then I started doing some research and found out they are basically the worst filter you can buy. I'm sure they were good in the past, but you know how things go when the wrong guys get in charge...trying to squeeze every penny out of the operation.

I'd guess that that's it as well. Bean counters cutting the balls off of something that was once great. If you really want to puke regarding that stuff, look up the Melling oil pump debacle.

The important thing to keep in mind is that we are all talking about a performace application. Yeah, the filters aren't great for that (I had a weird minor OP flutter problem in the GP that went away when I went K&N) but they are good for somebody who just needs a filter to keep their low performance 30psi at WOT DD on the road. Not everybody wants to pay for a filter that's overkill for the application.

[BonzoHansen]

Fram use to be the best. Oh well. Some of this could also be application specific.

I try to use dealer filters when possible. OE parts work.

[JL8Jeff]

But my point is, have you ever had an engine failure because you use Fram filters? Most likely no, so all the reading and "testing" doesn't truly validate your claims. I personally never liked Fram and always went with NAPA, AC Delco or Mobil 1 filters but I have never lost an engine either so I can't say anything bad about them. I have used Fram on occasion and did not lose the engine so I can't claim it's a bad filter. I have watched somebody wipe out a cam when they switched brands of oil so I would be more worried about the oil. Any part can have a defect which could lead to failure so don't jump to conclusions is my point.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

But my point is, have you ever had an engine failure because you use Fram filters? Most likely no, so all the reading and "testing" doesn't truly validate your claims. I personally never liked Fram and always went with NAPA, AC Delco or Mobil 1 filters but I have never lost an engine either so I can't say anything bad about them. I have used Fram on occasion and did not lose the engine so I can't claim it's a bad filter. I have watched somebody wipe out a cam when they switched brands of oil so I would be more worried about the oil. Any part can have a defect which could lead to failure so don't jump to conclusions is my point.

Not exactly sure what your getting at all. I can tell you that a loud tap coming from your motor isnt good and could possibly lead to furthur problems. Does an engine need to fail for there filters to be garbage? Do a quick google search w/ fram filters and engine failure and you might find something lol.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/general-ma...er-so-bad.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...am+oil+filters

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

But my point is, have you ever had an engine failure because you use Fram filters? Most likely no, so all the reading and "testing" doesn't truly validate your claims. I personally never liked Fram and always went with NAPA, AC Delco or Mobil 1 filters but I have never lost an engine either so I can't say anything bad about them. I have used Fram on occasion and did not lose the engine so I can't claim it's a bad filter. I have watched somebody wipe out a cam when they switched brands of oil so I would be more worried about the oil. Any part can have a defect which could lead to failure so don't jump to conclusions is my point.

I don't believe that I have ever used a Fram filter, I didn't do so because of my belief that it's an inferior product. My belief comes from reading about other peoples experience and forming my opinion on that. Why would I put that, what I belief is an inferior product, on my car? I would rather read and learn on other people's mistakes than jeopardize my own car.

You claim, or at least it looks like you're, that to have an opinion about an oil filter one must first lose an engine to conclude that the filter is bad/inferior is asinine, IMO. If you believe that, and you believe that all filters are equal until one messes up our engine then so be it. However I'm not one of those people.

[91chevywt]

If an oil filter fails it generally doesn't wipe out an engine...the filter is bypassed and the engine just uses unfiltered oil. If anything it shortens the life of an engine, but failure is a possibility. There was a period in time where the small block chevy didn't have an oil filter, and the filter was added for obvious reasons. I'm sure if an engine is damaged Fram would get their large legal team together and blame it on something else.

[JL8Jeff]

Originally Posted by MonmouthCtyAntz

Not exactly sure what your getting at all. I can tell you that a loud tap coming from your motor isnt good and could possibly lead to furthur problems. Does an engine need to fail for there filters to be garbage? Do a quick google search w/ fram filters and engine failure and you might find something lol.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/general-ma...er-so-bad.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...am+oil+filters

Originally Posted by Tsar

I don't believe that I have ever used a Fram filter, I didn't do so because of my belief that it's an inferior product. My belief comes from reading about other peoples experience and forming my opinion on that. Why would I put that, what I belief is an inferior product, on my car? I would rather read and learn on other people's mistakes than jeopardize my own car.

You claim, or at least it looks like you're, that to have an opinion about an oil filter one must first lose an engine to conclude that the filter is bad/inferior is asinine, IMO. If you believe that, and you believe that all filters are equal until one messes up our engine then so be it. However I'm not one of those people.

So if I posted that using Exxon gasoline will cause you to lose and engine because it's cheap gas and will cause your pistons to sieze you would never use Exxon then? My point is that you can't claim stuff without your own proof. Reading what someone has posted on the web is definitely helpful for you to make decision's but you can't claim those conclusions yourself.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

So if I posted that using Exxon gasoline will cause you to lose and engine because it's cheap gas and will cause your pistons to sieze you would never use Exxon then? My point is that you can't claim stuff without your own proof. Reading what someone has posted on the web is definitely helpful for you to make decision's but you can't claim those conclusions yourself.

Hmm...what are you missing here lol? MYcar was tapping. The mechanic that did the change on my car said it was the cause.

[JL8Jeff]

Originally Posted by MonmouthCtyAntz

Hmm...what are you missing here lol? MYcar was tapping. The mechanic that did the change on my car said it was the cause.

I understand that, but all LS1's tap with the piston slap. I've seen LS1's with 180K miles on them with the piston slap their whole life and no engine failure.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

I understand that, but all LS1's tap with the piston slap. I've seen LS1's with 180K miles on them with the piston slap their whole life and no engine failure.

Footnote: Many of GM's motors with hyper pistons do that. Not just the LS1. My dad's pickup sounds like a diesel at startup.

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

So if I posted that using Exxon gasoline will cause you to lose and engine because it's cheap gas and will cause your pistons to sieze you would never use Exxon then? My point is that you can't claim stuff without your own proof. Reading what someone has posted on the web is definitely helpful for you to make decision's but you can't claim those conclusions yourself.

If just one person posted it on the internet, I would not stay away from Exxon. I would attribute it to bad luck most likely. If, for example, 100 thousand people posted that they have been having problems with Exxon gas then yea I would stay away without taking a chance of damaging my car. Seems logical to me.