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Old 03-06-2017, 10:45 AM   #1
ThoR294
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Bought my WS6 on ebay, why not try for another car?

Worst decision of my life. TLDR and video of an issue at the end.

My father sends me a link to a 2007 Outback on eBay. It has 225k miles, no reserve. Ok, maybe head gaskets, timing belt, transmission, etc.? I ask the seller and he says 0 issues. See the description here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Subaru-...-/201828318921

Looks like a great car. High miles, but if its got no issues then whatever, its a car!

I bid $2500 and win the auction for $2300. Hooray.

I immediately put the deposit down and wait for more information about the seller and where to pick up. He takes forever in his replies, and will NOT give me a phone number or location of the car ever. I run a Carfax, it is clean. This quells my worries a little bit. I pay him full and send the money so I can get the title.

I get the title, and notice the package came from Florida, not from PA (where car is from). Odd... maybe he’s on vacation right now? Whatever, title is mine. I noticed the name on the Title doesn’t match the return address. Let’s say Bob is the title name, and Luc is the name on the return address.

Luc FINALLY gives me a phone # and name (which I already knew) of where to pick the car up. Again, this is almost 4 days after I paid in full. I talk to Bob about the car and eBay comes up. Bob says “You got this car on eBay, I thought you were his friend”

I say, “Nope, bought it on eBay for $2300.”
He says, “I sold it to him for $1700, he never came to look at the car or anything. He said he was going to send a truck to bring it to Florida, then he said a friend was going to get it.”

I talk more to Bob and he tells me he got the car from his neighbor who recently upgraded to a new Subaru. He drove it around his development, as Bob lives in the lumber section in PA, lots of gravel roads, slow speeds, etc. His wife said it was too small so they wanted a bigger SUV.

I drive up to get the car Sunday. I notice the body is pretty beat up (whatever, 225k miles), and Bob tells me the Swaybars were never done. He hands me the endlinks in my hand. Lie #1. He just had the oil changed and transmission serviced.

I leave, car is driving OK. Tires making noise, brakes making noise, meh alright not too bad. I noticed transmission shifting hard from 2nd to 3rd. I check trans fluid, its brown, so was it changed? The Video at the end shows how violent the upshift is if you are trying to accelerate hard.

I tell Luc about all the issues:

Me: “OK so this Subaru has a bunch of issues. Has 3 codes. P0171, p0026, p0028, which require diagnosis. All 4 tires are shot as they have mountain ranges on the inside of them. Huge exhaust leak from the tailpipe. Ac doesn’t work. Transmission is jerking and shuddering. Rear bumper is hit and pushed out. Brakes are making noise when driving. Sway bars are clunking over bumps. Piece of the air intake is missing.... So yeah this car has issues” – “This car isn't worth much with all of these issues. I'd have to sink almost $2000 to fix it all”

Luc:” Wow! Didn't know it really. This was Bob’s car did you told him?”

Yeah I Told him!.. and oh really bobs car… I bought it from YOU on ebay. Nice try.

Me: “Yeah he said he didn't drive it much. So what do we do I'm not paying $2300 for a car I thought had no issues “

Luc: “But on the other hand this was a no reserve auction if it where sold for $200 it didn't matter. I'm sorry, really I am. But let's make the best of it. And perhaps find a good Subaru mechanic on GL.”

LOL oh yeah totally man!

Me: “ Yeah no reserve and I asked about issues”

Luc: “I post the way I know and Bob, that's all I can say. Anything purchased at auction is like that. If you go to car auction is the same .... Otherwise dealer will sell with a warranty but $7k -$9k ! Not at $2300 but you know that.”

Yeah no that’s not how car sales work man. Especially on eBay.

Me: “They BB at $2800. So no.”

Ill stop there. he is ridiculous and too much to type

Currently opened a case with eBay VPP –
“Car was described as having 0 issues. After driving the car, the check engine light came on. It has 3 codes. P0171, p0026, p0028, which require diagnosis. The car will not rev past 4000 RPM. All 4 tires are shot as they have mountain ranges on the inside of them, causing noise and vibration while driving. Huge exhaust leak from the tailpipe and header. You can see JB weld on the exhaust. Transmission shifts poorly and the 2nd to 3rd shift is violent and horrible. Rear bumper is hit and pushed out. Brakes are making noise when driving, rotors have excessive rust, ad says brakes were replaced. Sway bars are clunking over bumps, ad says they were replaced which they were not. Piece of the air intake is missing. Car is very sluggish and has little power. Tail lights and headlights have water in them. Various interior pieces missing. I have photo and video proof of everything wrong with the car. Thank you.”

TLDR: Seller on eBay says car has 0 issues. It has tons of issues and seller bought the car from someone else on eBay, didn’t pick the car up, and tried to flip it for money sight unseen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAJNWc6SCsw
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:44 AM   #2
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This is ******. So the eBay seller tried flipping a car that he had never seen before, and made false claims regarding it? If so, I'd really drive that point home to win favor with whoever is arbitrating this for you.

In the interim, I'll play Devil's Advocate, strictly for the purpose of helping you prepare for any counterarguments anyone may throw at you during all of this.

The eBay ad you linked to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eBay ad
Don't let the miles scare you, this is a good running Outback, high highway mileage with no warning light at the dash. No headgasket issue, just runs great. Properly maintained and it shows.
Recently done:

Sway bar links
Brakes + Rotors
Battery
Transmission service and flush
...
Sold in as is condition, no trade or warranty.
A $500 deposit is due at the end of auction and remainder with 3 days.
No reserve auction.
Thank you

- His listing says "no warning light at the dash." You prove his point when, in your original post, you said that you got behind the wheel & left with no CEL. I would be careful arguing this one. Technically, a dick person could disconnect the battery to temporarily clear the codes then claim "Hey, it had no CEL when you took over. You took possession of a car with no CEL & after there was a transfer in the chain of custody, I have no idea what you did with the car & you may as well have caused the CEL to come on yourself--I can't be held responsible for your actions once you took over." More than likely, these are existing issues that were momentarily masked for the purposes of deceiving you, and aren't issues you caused in the first few miles of driving the car. You just need to find enough irrefutable points to make this case.

- He does mention "recently done: battery" so that may or may not help in making the case that he knew of the underlying issues/codes.

- I would absolutely highlight that he advertises it as "properly maintained" but the air conditioning did not work, a piece of the intake piping is missing, there are issues with the brakes, and there is an abnormal sound coming from the suspension.

- The seller really doesn't go into much detail in that eBay post, so there isn't much meat on the bone to work with, so you gotta tear apart as many factual things as you can. The fact that he said Sway Bar Endlinks were done, but they obviously were not & the gentleman in PA handed you NIB endlinks to replace yourself is something else that you can use to chip away at any credibility/benefit-of-the-doubt that any 3rd party tries to give the seller.

- "Recently serviced transmission." -- Recent is very subjective. What you think "recent" implies will vary from what my interpretation of the word is. I would emphasis how quickly after receipt you checked the transmission fluid.

- You say the car is running "Okay" whereas he described it as running "good." Again, this is an interpretation thing and while I would definitely mention it to eBay/Police, I wouldn't rest a lot of my case on this sentence. He was definitely misleading in that he said [a car he's never owned, driven, or even seen before] is "good running" and "drives great."


The seller lied to you & possibly to the gentleman who the vehicle was titled to. He has no business making claims he cannot attest to. He misled you to believe you were purchasing something other than what you received. This is the type of jerk that makes people fear using eBay.


I hope you get this resolved quickly & painlessly. I'll be watching to see what eBay does. Sorry, dude. Keep us posted & get your money back. Look into whether or not you can get the police and the Fed involved. Good luck.
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Last edited by Jersey Mike; 03-06-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:55 AM   #3
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Thanks for the tips.

Yeah I made the mistake of forgetting my scanner. I wish I did, but what can I do at that point? The guy I got it from wasn't the seller! lol. This is what makes it fun. "Bob" could be telling the truth that he drove the car at slow speeds and on ****** roads, which he did, not for a long time. He put maybe 300 miles in 6 months on it.







This one is the money:


He has the balls to say NO when he has never seen the car LOL.

I do not think I have ever been so pissed off in my life. First ebay said I wasn't protected, then I called again and they said I was. Im waiting for eBays Vehicle Protection Plan for a reply.
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1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel

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Old 03-06-2017, 11:58 AM   #4
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He listed a car on eBay that he didn't own.

Sale is invalid. Right? Luc sold Bob's car.

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Old 03-06-2017, 12:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT View Post
He listed a car on eBay that he didn't own.

Sale is invalid. Right? Luc sold Bob's car.
Well, Luc did buy it previously from Bob on eBay, so who knows
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LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel

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Old 03-06-2017, 12:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ThoR294 View Post
Well, Luc did buy it previously from Bob on eBay, so who knows
Well... no, right?

Gotta title the car to own it. Passing it on like this is tax fraud.

Grab that loophole and pull.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by WildBillyT View Post
Well... no, right?

Gotta title the car to own it. Passing it on like this is tax fraud.

Grab that loophole and pull.
oh **** son good call
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LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #8
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I wonder if the oil is low/dirty as **** for the solenoid codes.....

Did you check the seller's feedback? Quite a few negative ones especially with cars. Sucks, hopefully ebay helps you out but this doesn't look good....
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I know it's good to eat salads, but this is ridiculous.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT View Post
Well... no, right?

Gotta title the car to own it. Passing it on like this is tax fraud.

Grab that loophole and pull.
Tough call, I think its referred to as title passing. He could simply state he was selling the car for Bob, right?
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hi there, i just joined this forum and i must admit that i like it
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Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28 View Post
I know it's good to eat salads, but this is ridiculous.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider View Post
I wonder if the oil is low/dirty as **** for the solenoid codes.....

Did you check the seller's feedback? Quite a few negative ones especially with cars. Sucks, hopefully ebay helps you out but this doesn't look good....
Yeah the oil was **** and **** filter. I made the mistake and changed the oil, may have cleared the 2 intake VVT codes. I did it at advanced auto I couldn't drive the car.

Oh yeah and it's stalled idling a few times lol
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LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT View Post
Well... no, right?

Gotta title the car to own it. Passing it on like this is tax fraud.

Grab that loophole and pull.
I was going to say the same thing.

Follow up question, how does this work with out of state sales etc..? This is going from PA to FL to NJ.

Well not really to FL but it should have....
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and once i get PHB, what do i ajust it too?
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Seven.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:29 PM   #12
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I was going to say the same thing.

Follow up question, how does this work with out of state sales etc..? This is going from PA to FL to NJ.

Well not really to FL but it should have....
I forgot to add:

PS quit ****ing with it if you want them to give you your money back.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBillyT View Post
I forgot to add:

PS quit ****ing with it if you want them to give you your money back.
hahah yeah I haven't touched it since oil change. I had to try something, car wouldn't go over ~4k RPMs and I had about an hour to go. It's a $2300 lawn ornament right now

I don't mind keeping the car, but its not worth $2300. :P
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LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel

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Old 03-06-2017, 12:38 PM   #14
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It wasn't worth $2300 if it didn't have the obvious issues
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hi there, i just joined this forum and i must admit that i like it
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I know it's good to eat salads, but this is ridiculous.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:43 PM   #15
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It wasn't worth $2300 if it didn't have the obvious issues
If it was perfect I said $2500 is the most I'd spend. I was thinking about giving it to my dad. He doesn't drive my dakota much anymore. His back is giving him issues so he drives my moms camry or sisters audi. Stickshift getting to him

and your reasoning is good for me, its worth nothing especially with the issues
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LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel

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Old 03-06-2017, 12:45 PM   #16
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Being an interstate transaction done through the internet, does this qualify as Wire Fraud?
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Good. He microwaved my phone 6 years ago, i hope his intake erupts.

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Old 03-06-2017, 12:46 PM   #17
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Being an interstate state transaction done through the internet, does this qualify as Wire Fraud?
I think eBay might remove that notion.
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LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:48 PM   #18
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Not sure if you are aware but:

Quote:
Purchases and/or associated losses are NOT covered by VPP in the examples below:

Vehicle Condition

Any damage on vehicles 10 years old or older (10-year threshold is based on model year).
Regular maintenance and fluid levels.
Normal wear and tear, including but not limited to belts, hoses, tires, brakes, bushings, joints, spark plugs and wires, interior features, minor dents, paint chips and scratches.
Certain components
Damage to any component (other than the combustion engine, transmission, and/or body/frame), including but not limited to the vehicle's interior, exhaust, air conditioner, electrical (including the battery or other electrical components of a hybrid or electric car's engine), suspension, cooling system, turbo charger, fuel system, differential, clutch/torque converter, and/or pollution control devices; or
Damage to qualifying components that does not exceed $1,000 (or $1,500 for vehicles listed in the Boat, Bus, Commercial Truck, RV and Camper categories).
Damage after purchase - Damage or loss caused during shipping or otherwise after purchase.
Cosmetic damage, such as paint or external surface rust.
Unverifiable damage.
Any damage on a vehicle listed with anything but a "clear" title.

Deposit issues
Sending a non-refundable deposit for a vehicle and not receiving the vehicle, or a refund, because you chose not to complete the transaction or pay the remaining balance for any reason.

Ancillary losses
Punitive damages, lost profits, loss of work, travel expenses, or restocking costs.

Title / ownership issues
Misstatements about the type of title brand, for a vehicle listed with anything but a "clear" title.
Failure to receive a certificate of title for a vehicle that was listed with a title brand or with the title being described as anything but "clear".
Receiving a title that is not signed, is improperly assigned, or receiving a title but not being able to register the vehicle (unless you are unable to register the vehicle due to an undisclosed lien against its title).
Losses based on a vehicle classified as "theft recovery" or "previously stolen" but recovered by a law enforcement agency prior to being listed on eBay.

Other
Buyer's remorse.
Any damage or listing discrepancies that were disclosed to you prior to taking possession of the vehicle.
Any damage that could have been discovered upon a reasonable inspection before you paid for and picked up the vehicle in person.
Any damage that does not impact the safety or operability of the vehicle.
Repairs or alterations made by you to the vehicle without the consent of the VPP Administrator.
Inspection costs, warranty fees, taxes paid, or any other fees or expenses that are not expressly covered under these Terms and Conditions.
Transactions occurring off-eBay or on any other website.
It does not appear you are covered. Its 10 years old.
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I know it's good to eat salads, but this is ridiculous.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:50 PM   #19
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Not sure if you are aware but:

It does not appear you are covered. Its 10 years old.
thats what ebay first said, I read that as well.

next guy at ebay said since the symbol is on the for sale page, that its eligible. but it looks like every car even from 2002 is eligible.. lol

I started a dispute with Chase yesterday, since PayPal doesn't cover vehicles, just in case this VPP falls through.
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LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:55 PM   #20
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You paid through PayPal but did you use your bank account or credit card to pay for this transaction? What about the deposit?
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Good. He microwaved my phone 6 years ago, i hope his intake erupts.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:55 PM   #21
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You paid through PayPal but did you use your bank account or credit card to pay for this transaction? What about the deposit?
sent $500 via paypal and accidentally used my checking account
Paid the remaining $1800 with Paypal and used my chase CC
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1996 Trans Am WS6 M6 - 13.679 at 102.77MPH in 1/4. (11/07)
LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel

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Old 03-06-2017, 12:59 PM   #22
Jersey Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoR294 View Post
sent $500 via paypal and accidentally used my checking account
Paid the remaining $1800 with Paypal and used my chase CC
Sounds like you got it home, discovered even more issues, and immediately stopped touching the car.
Start brushing up on how you can salvage the situation. Read up on chargeback criteria, your CC protections, Chase's safeguards, and reach out to any friends in Law Enforcement that you may have.
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Good. He microwaved my phone 6 years ago, i hope his intake erupts.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:28 PM   #23
6spdg37s
 
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wow sorry to hear this man... what sucks is people like that make all us good people look bad... i am very iffy on vehicle purchases on ebay.

I hope this works out for you.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:30 PM   #24
BonzoHansen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoR294 View Post
sent $500 via paypal and accidentally used my checking account
Paid the remaining $1800 with Paypal and used my chase CC
Call chase now
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Vent Windows Forever! ... My junk ... NJ Camaros and Firebirds

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand. Or so I have read.

Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold. I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors.

Hey everybody, it's good to have you on the Baba-too-da-ba-too-ba-ba-buh-doo-ga-ga-bop-a-dop
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:34 PM   #25
ThoR294
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Originally Posted by BonzoHansen View Post
Call chase now
Called chase yesterday, TD today. Disputes started.

Emailed seller told him I filed the disputes and I will file a police report and he can come pick up his car. (lolyaright likes hes gonna pay $700 in shipping)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6spdg37s View Post
wow sorry to hear this man... what sucks is people like that make all us good people look bad... i am very iffy on vehicle purchases on ebay.

I hope this works out for you.

Yeah lesson learned. Never buying ANY car on eBay ever again, even if it is protected. I'll do craigslist/dealerships/forums and I'll look at the car first. I got lucky with my bird I guess
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1996 Trans Am WS6 M6 - 13.679 at 102.77MPH in 1/4. (11/07)
LPP LT Headers & ORY, PCM4LESS Tune, GMMG Catback, TPIS Air Foil, SPEC Clutch, STB, BMR SFCs, Boxed Stock LCAs, 3.73s, Koni 4/4s, Strano Springs, UMI Adj T/A and Reloc Xmember, Adj PHB, MGW Shifter, LS1 Front Brakes, BLS HIDs, Full Sound System!
1986 Honda VFR750 - 89.3HP to the wheel

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