Should the government bailout the American car companies?

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by DevilDougWS6

i think Al's point was that if/when 3 million people lose their jobs is definitally NOT a good thing, and is a big deal. So what if a few thousand can pick up a new job, its still a situation that should be completely avoided.

Wow you should be a detective!

[BigAls87Z28]

Big 3 are about to go in front of the Sen Banking Committe.
So far everyone has come up with a different idea on how to fix this.
Problem is, last time a bunch of economic geniouses came together to save an automaker, it was Cerbreus. They were economic smartie-pants and thougth that they could take thier economic business plan and be able to make Chrysler powerful again
Wrong.

[j0n]

Big 3 will go under... It is inevitable. Anyone who knows me knows how much I love GM... but this loan crap is simply going to get burned through and GM will be back to square one, with taxpayers 25bil MORE in the hole.

[BigAls87Z28]

UAW Gettelfinger is up right now talking about how much they have improved over the past few years.

[BigAls87Z28]

Mullaly is up now.

Wagoner is up now.

[BigAls87Z28]

Rick is laying it out big time. So far he has the best speach so far.

[Savage_Messiah]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Rick is laying it out big time. So far he has the best speach so far.

He would, he's got you under the table lewinski-ing him after all

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

He would, he's got you under the table lewinski-ing him after all

LMFAO

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

He would, he's got you under the table lewinski-ing him after all

Funny in bold

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Originally Posted by j0n

Big 3 will go under... It is inevitable. Anyone who knows me knows how much I love GM... but this loan crap is simply going to get burned through and GM will be back to square one, with taxpayers 25bil MORE in the hole.

HE LIVES AND POSTS!!!!one1one!

[j0n]

Where do I sign up to send a letter telling them NOT to piss away 25bil?

[BigAls87Z28]

Bite me stacks.

[BigAls87Z28]

Chubby Bobby is getting a bit upset. As a dem, he isnt towing the line.
Shut up fatty, give them the 25 billion, and shaddap.

[SteveR]

Bi~Gals, as funny as that is, j0n does have a point in there. GM is burning through 2 billion every 30 days. All a 25 billion bailout is going to do is extent their demise by 12.5 months. The only way GM is going to survive is to re-org the entire company. The question becomes, can GM trim 2 billion from its monthly expenditures? The real problem GM is facing is that with an emerging global economy, the US is getting hit by the efficiency of the European Union and the way European companies operate, whereas GM is stuck in the old US mantra of excesses and overages. If they can't adapt to a more efficient way to operate, they won't survive, 25 billion bailout or not.

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by j0n

Where do I sign up to send a letter telling them NOT to piss away 25bil?

i agree. i hope they don't pull a "spa treatment" like those other ********. some of these people have no sense of the world and think we owe them everything. take some responsibility and turn your company around yourself!

always priceless steve

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by SteveR

Bi~Gals, as funny as that is, j0n does have a point in there. GM is burning through 2 billion every 30 days. All a 25 billion bailout is going to do is extent their demise by 12.5 months. The only way GM is going to survive is to re-org the entire company. The question becomes, can GM trim 2 billion from its monthly expenditures? The real problem GM is facing is that with an emerging global economy, the US is getting hit by the efficiency of the European Union and the way European companies operate, whereas GM is stuck in the old US mantra of excesses and overages. If they can't adapt to a more efficient way to operate, they won't survive, 25 billion bailout or not.

Thing is, GM and the others have done some major revamping of thier business structure. They are looking at saving 20 billion a year come Jan 1st, 2010.
Where was this outpouring of emotion when AIG not only came up to the window once, BUT TWICE!! 50 billion at a clip, without questions!!
We are talking about supporting 3 million people with 1/2 what AIG has already burned through, and came back for more.

One thing I do know, is that I Bobby Menendez will not get my vote next time he is around.

[Tsar]

Did I hear this correctly, the figure of 3 million jobs include car wash jobs lost in Detroit? Are you serious?!?!

[BigAls87Z28]

Oh you are gunna listen to the WSJ guy?
3 million is an average figure that has ranged from several sources.

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Thing is, GM and the others have done some major revamping of thier business structure. They are looking at saving 20 billion a year come Jan 1st, 2010.
Where was this outpouring of emotion when AIG not only came up to the window once, BUT TWICE!! 50 billion at a clip, without questions!!
We are talking about supporting 3 million people with 1/2 what AIG has already burned through, and came back for more.

One thing I do know, is that I Bobby Menendez will not get my vote next time he is around.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but no matter what happens, if GM doesn't change the way they operate, they'll go under with our without the bailout. They seem to me to be the poster company of how not to do business in terms of wasteful spending and mismanagement.

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Oh you are gunna listen to the WSJ guy?
3 million is an average figure that has ranged from several sources.

I was just listening before I have to go to class again. If it's false why don't you point me to the right figures/numbers. Otherwise I'm more likely to believe him than you.

Car wash jobs

[SteveR]

I didn't read through all 5 pages so I'm not sure if anybody talked about this yet, but, the alternative that GM was quietly asking for to Paulson, was an arranged bankruptcy. They were talking about it last Monday night after the meeting GM had with Democratic leaders and financial leaders in DC. Basically it would be a pre-arranged deal where the gov allows GM to declare chap 11, and restructure the company. The negative side of it is that it would dramatically impact a lot of people. What would happen is that if it were allowed, GM could cancel and reclaim all pension money, cancel benefits, cancel contracts with the UAW, suspend warranties, and come back with a different name and they could rebuild the company as they see fit, and the implications they were talking about was a non-union workforce, to decrease costs. I'm surprised it hasn't been on the news more, but seeing how negative and purely monetary it is, it'll cast a dark light on GM if it goes through. Not sure what the politics of it are or anything, but thats what they were reporting on the news last week.

[damon_Z]

Originally Posted by SteveR

I didn't read through all 5 pages so I'm not sure if anybody talked about this yet, but, the alternative that GM was quietly asking for to Paulson, was an arranged bankruptcy. They were talking about it last Monday night after the meeting GM had with Democratic leaders and financial leaders in DC. Basically it would be a pre-arranged deal where the gov allows GM to declare chap 11, and restructure the company. The negative side of it is that it would dramatically impact a lot of people. What would happen is that if it were allowed, GM could cancel and reclaim all pension money, cancel benefits, cancel contracts with the UAW, suspend warranties, and come back with a different name and they could rebuild the company as they see fit, and the implications they were talking about was a non-union workforce, to decrease costs. I'm surprised it hasn't been on the news more, but seeing how negative and purely monetary it is, it'll cast a dark light on GM if it goes through. Not sure what the politics of it are or anything, but thats what they were reporting on the news last week.

An arranged bankruptcy sounds perfect, Steve.

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by SteveR

I didn't read through all 5 pages so I'm not sure if anybody talked about this yet, but, the alternative that GM was quietly asking for to Paulson, was an arranged bankruptcy. They were talking about it last Monday night after the meeting GM had with Democratic leaders and financial leaders in DC. Basically it would be a pre-arranged deal where the gov allows GM to declare chap 11, and restructure the company. The negative side of it is that it would dramatically impact a lot of people. What would happen is that if it were allowed, GM could cancel and reclaim all pension money, cancel benefits, cancel contracts with the UAW, suspend warranties, and come back with a different name and they could rebuild the company as they see fit, and the implications they were talking about was a non-union workforce, to decrease costs. I'm surprised it hasn't been on the news more, but seeing how negative and purely monetary it is, it'll cast a dark light on GM if it goes through. Not sure what the politics of it are or anything, but thats what they were reporting on the news last week.

That was not talked about, 5 pages involved me saying that printing money would be bad, because US doesn't have any and it would be irresponsible to print more. And BiGals was just sack riding GM, but that is expected of him.

I like the arranged bankruptcy thing, besides canned warranties that is.

[johnjzjz]

NOW for my take on this -- and it will be blown off cause ime not in the in crowd --- the unions are the main reason for this -- 76 bucks and hour for both the 1.5 million retirees and the people still on the job and we all know the unions are in the DEMS pocket -- Reason they the left wants the bail out millions of re elect money at risk Obuddy -- thats 76 bucks an hour onto the cost of every car, and a reason the american cars are not competive in the world, the dopes who buy imports claming the american cars are junt WELL get this they cant afford to build them -- the unions have broken the backs so to speek of all 3 car companys -- soooo with GM owning 35 percent of toyojunk preamooo stock and with this looming and toyojunk turning their own stock in a downward spiral ( ya did notice the asian market all of a suddin came down nah they wouldent do that ) they will buy GM at 70 percent of its current stock total 35% is already their own and 40 cents on a dollar maybe less will be the walk out the door price, of course if your blind will believe the drive buy media and the left that its a good deal -- toyojunk is going to hostel take over GM after the bail because they will get that money not GM my take for what its worth the deal has already been struck -- jz

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by SteveR

I didn't read through all 5 pages so I'm not sure if anybody talked about this yet, but, the alternative that GM was quietly asking for to Paulson, was an arranged bankruptcy. They were talking about it last Monday night after the meeting GM had with Democratic leaders and financial leaders in DC. Basically it would be a pre-arranged deal where the gov allows GM to declare chap 11, and restructure the company. The negative side of it is that it would dramatically impact a lot of people. What would happen is that if it were allowed, GM could cancel and reclaim all pension money, cancel benefits, cancel contracts with the UAW, suspend warranties, and come back with a different name and they could rebuild the company as they see fit, and the implications they were talking about was a non-union workforce, to decrease costs. I'm surprised it hasn't been on the news more, but seeing how negative and purely monetary it is, it'll cast a dark light on GM if it goes through. Not sure what the politics of it are or anything, but thats what they were reporting on the news last week.

I did, go read it!