I need a couple of people willing to help out here... - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

L695speed · 12-09-2011, 03:08 PM

I am having problems trying to get my front springs into the cups on my '84 TA. The car is on four jack stands and is not entirely stable when trying to use the jack to get the front springs in. I decided to put the rear down and try it that way, only to have the torque arm fall off and shift everything out of alignment.

So, I am asking if anyone on here would be willing to come over and give me a hand with two things. First get the springs in, second get the Torque arm back on and in the bushing. I might need the bolt sizes or bolts for the last of the bushing holes on the bracket. I can ask my brother but I think I'm gonna need someone who has done this before.

I posted it up in the chassis section over at TGO, and I have tried most of the methods over there with no success or not really feeling good about how the car is shifting on the stands. If anyone can come over and help out It'd be greatly appreciated. I know its the holidays and people are busy, I can do this on whoever is willing to help's schedule.

Thanks in advance.
Chris

Anti_Rice_Guy · 12-09-2011, 03:10 PM

If you end up getting someone who actually knows what they're doing and want a third set of hands, shoot me a PM. I don't have the knowledge but I can help.

L695speed · 12-09-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

If you end up getting someone who actually knows what they're doing and want a third set of hands, shoot me a PM. I don't have the knowledge but I can help.

Thanks and will do. I'm hoping Larry (TA455Kid) might sound off on here, I know he builds suspensions.

L695speed · 12-10-2011, 05:25 PM

I might need to put this on hold for a bit til I get spindles and struts etc done and ordered. From what I'm reading on TGO it sounds like its easier and safer if that is on the car as well. I don't have an engine in the car at the moment which is making this harder, but I'll let people know if I'm still stuffing in springs before I get the spindles and etc.

zraffz · 12-11-2011, 04:36 PM

I've gotten the rear torque arm back on after having it shift on me (actually fired it up after stuffing a mild built 355 into one and forgot to put the torque arm on as I dumped the clutch and heard the most horrible smacking noise of my life). Never dealt with the front suspension on one of these cars though... but I am local and can at least give you a hand with it.

TheV6Guy · 12-11-2011, 09:57 PM

I'm in with anti rice. Your actually in my area so shoot me a pm and id be willing to give ya a spare set of hands. Although I've never worked on suspension before id still be willing to help somehow. Lol

L695speed · 12-12-2011, 08:51 PM

Thanks to all, I'll see what I'll do, my biggest engine is the lack of of an engine to weigh down the front end. I'm told its easier with struts and spindles installed, and pivot with the ball joint. Since my spindles are out for mods to install LS1 front brakes it will be some time. I'll let everyone know what I decide to do. I gotta do some clean up in the garage first. Make it easier for whoever decides to join this lil party.

BigAls87Z28 · 12-27-2011, 11:46 PM

Wait, so you don't have spindles to install yet? Yeah, wait for them so you can bolt them up to the struts without problems.

It's not that bad. Are these factory springs, or aftermarket lowering springs?
I did the springs for my 87 6 times over 3 days, just because I was losing my mind.
It helps to have a 2nd pair of hands lift the jack as someone holds the spring in place to where it hits the right spot .

BonzoHansen · 12-28-2011, 07:40 AM

Spring compressor. And yes, you need the spindles ready to bolt in too. I suggest finding someone experienced to help.

BigAls87Z28 · 12-28-2011, 07:12 PM

You can get buy without a spring compressor.

//<86TA>\\ · 12-28-2011, 07:17 PM

Chris's issue here is that there is no drivetrain in the car, that makes installing the springs almost impossible, even with the spring comp, since it doesnt work very well in a 3rd gen to begin with.

and yes, struts and spindles are a must, since they hold everything together. No sense putting springs in if you cant keep them in, because they will most likely end up flying out if you install them without finishing the entire job.

BonzoHansen · 12-28-2011, 09:32 PM

Right, no weight is the complication. 3rd gen springs install in the lca and pocket just like 2nd gen springs. Without weight it is a lot easier to properly install a spring correctly when it is compressed, especially by yourself. If they are lowering springs it may be possible to install w/o a compressor, but w/o weight it is difficult to jack up on the lca and compress the spring enough to get the suspension back together. Although the strut design might help because the strut extends, unlike an uca/ubj setup.

And remember as a spring is compressed it stores a good deal of energy and if it pops out it can be very dangerous. I always run a chain through the spring and lca just in case.

L695speed · 01-17-2012, 03:37 PM

Sorry I skipped out on these boards for a bit, got all hectic around here. Anyway, yeah, I decided to pass that on for now. Larry gave me a spring compressor model number that Snapon made that should work when I get that far. Spindles and etc are now on the car, I am waiting til I get at least caster plates before I even attempt to try compressing them and putting them in. I should still have my blown Monroe struts from god knows how long ago that I can use as a place holder to install til I get the Konis.

I am hoping that a couple options pan out for me, maybe I can get a motor built sometime later this year.

L695speed · 03-15-2012, 02:44 PM

Ok guys, heres the deal, if and I mean if, I get the torque arm in place, I will have a legit roller sans front springs. It will be riding on the bump stops. I have the torque arm almost where it needs to be, but its an inch too far back still and I ran out of leverage. I can't get it to slide into the bushing anymore no matter how much grease or WD-40 I use. zraffz I know is closest, I'll be sending him a PM.

I have camber/caster plates arriving tomorrow so I can hook up the front struts to that. As for the springs, I am thinking of trying one more time without the motor, this time I am thinking hook up the strut, pivot at the ball joint, with all three wheels on the ground and chock the rear tire. Its more stable and the pivot at the ball joint I think gives more room. I got close last time, but teetering on jackstands I decided to stop. It would be nice to roll the car out and clean up all the nuts, bolts etc that have wound up scattered all over the floor.

Its getting nice out, I'm up in Andover in Sussex County if anyone wants to see if they can give me a hand with getting that last inch from the torque arm. I'm 5'6 or so and 140. I don't have the leverage to get that last bit.

Anti_Rice_Guy · 03-15-2012, 02:50 PM

irocz86 is in hopatcong, not too far as well. Same with NJbadSS.

L695speed · 03-15-2012, 03:03 PM

I forgot about NJbadss. We went back and forth, said used to live right near me. I'll PM all three see if anyone wants to give me a hand. You're welcome to come up as well. I'll be cleaning up what I can in the garage so no one is killing themselves when if they decide to give me a hand. And yes I do have some beer, though some of it is Microbrew stuff that is either good or just blah.

//<86TA>\\ · 03-15-2012, 05:05 PM

is the arm bolted to the axle? if it is, it shouldnt be. If you support the back of the car, and let the rear hang with the floor jack under it, you can raise and lower the axle to change the angle of the arm and that will help you get it aligned enough to slide the rest of the way into the bushing.

if the arm is not bolted to the axle, push harder, lol.

i would offer a hand, but you are a bit north for me and im out tonight.

L695speed · 03-15-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\

is the arm bolted to the axle? if it is, it shouldnt be. If you support the back of the car, and let the rear hang with the floor jack under it, you can raise and lower the axle to change the angle of the arm and that will help you get it aligned enough to slide the rest of the way into the bushing.

if the arm is not bolted to the axle, push harder, lol.

i would offer a hand, but you are a bit north for me and im out tonight.

Ok, Its not bolted, I'm pushing the ever living hell out of it and getting nowhere. If I back out that top bolt anymore I likely won't get it back in. LOL. As for the alignment its almost near perfect, I can probably easily get the arm on the axle, a BFH will take care of that, I just need it an inch or so back into that bushing..... I sent a PM to some of the folks near here seeing if maybe they can give me a hand. I'd ask my brother to give me a hand but knowing him I'm not sure if I want him to.

//<86TA>\\ · 03-15-2012, 07:48 PM

something is not right then. the arm should slide freely in and out, if its really that hard, something is wrong. Is this the original bushing and torque arm? there are 2 different bushings and arms FYI, but they are different enough that you would notice.

L695speed · 03-15-2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\

something is not right then. the arm should slide freely in and out, if its really that hard, something is wrong. Is this the original bushing and torque arm? there are 2 different bushings and arms FYI, but they are different enough that you would notice.

Its the right bushing for the arm (I know of the flipped "M" change). If it was the original one I would have had it in and the rear on the ground by now lol. Its a poly. And its the original arm. I don't want to take that top bolt all the way back out considering it was a bitch to get it lined up and in. Might get even harder to line up with the arm in place. If being poly is the issue, I have a 4 foot pry bar, maybe if I leverage it against a part of the rear and pry pushing on the arm? I don't know why this has to be so hard....

L695speed · 03-16-2012, 02:42 PM

I probably pulled a couple arm/shoulder muscles but I finally got it go slide into the bushing. Torque arm is in place with the bolts through the diff. I'll replace the bolts eventually, but that is detail work. I will have the bird out of the garage as a legit roller for the first time in almost two years either later today or tomorrow. Thanks to all who may have thought of or offered to come up if I needed it. Sometimes a lil bitching and moaning and a little time away from the problem solve it. Much beer consumption too.

L695speed · 03-18-2012, 11:58 AM

Ok I am getting pissed with these stupid springs........

Does anyone have a spring compressor that is already cut so the rod doesn't hit the crossmember, or know what length of pipe works so you don't hit the crossmember with the rod? I'm using a 4.5 inch pipe as a spacer. Might need to go further. If anyone has an OTC compressor I'd be thrilled if they'd lend it to me. I don't care what you do, just using the jack and the weight of the car can't be done without an engine in there. It simply can't be done. I have a couple inches to go and the car starts lifting too. Even with Pro Kit springs this can't be done without a compressor when there is no motor in the car. The OTC compressor would get the job done in probably less than an hour for both springs, but it costs 200 bucks and not worth it for what might be a one time deal. I am tempted to try the compressor that has a claw and put the claw on the bottom of the spring pocket of the a arm. Compress the spring and A arm together if that will get it done.

WildBillyT · 03-18-2012, 12:28 PM

Yes, using the weight of the car with no engine won't work. This is the ultimate in shade tree, but what you can do if you have some friends or family members sit in the engine bay to add some weight.

L695speed · 03-18-2012, 04:04 PM

Solution:

Rob bank
build motor
put motor in
put springs in

body and paint too since I would be flush with cash

L695speed · 03-18-2012, 05:08 PM

Ok all sarcasm about robbing banks to finish the car aside....

I do have the original L69 block under the bench. Has the cam still in it and a few other items. What if I took said block, bolted a couple motor mounts on it, and dropped it in place (NOT bolted) into the car? Would that be enough weight without the heads and rotating assembly? Ofc I could have someone sit on top of that etc etc. Not many people around here might be willing to play that game though. One person might. Another way is I could try the pry bar and jack trick again. Using the A arm bolts as the pivot. I got close the first time I tried that and stopped because the car was on one or two jack stands on the back drivers side and about to fall off. First time I didn't have spindles or struts. Now that I do I might be able to pull that trick off. Just frustrating because people build bare chassis with no bodies on or motors on them and they somehow get them in.