electrical nightmare incarnate - Page 2 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

PolarBear · 09-12-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Isn't vats controlled by the ECM...which is no longer in the car?

And doesn't Vats only stop power from going to the fuel pump? Meaning that the car will crank all day, but won't start?

- Justin

I think depending on the year VATS was twofold. It sent a signal to the ECM to pulse the injectors, so if you had the wrong key, failed key or no key it would crank but not fire. Second (as shown in the diagrams Scott put up) it grounded the relay for the starter, so if you had no VATS you wont be able to crank. I know from experience

. I am guessing that it may be a VATS issue here. Scott if you want some help with this next time you go let me know and I can lend a hand.

89CamaroRS · 09-12-2007, 02:45 PM

alright then, tomorrow i'll try gettin around the VATS system. keep ur fingers crossed.

PolarBear · 09-12-2007, 02:51 PM

IIRC There should be 4 wires on the starter relay. It should be behind the DS kick panel where the hood release is. Should be a silver box with the 4 wires, 2 large gauge and 2 small gauge. Mine has a light color wire (maybe yellow) and a dark wire with a stripe. I extended the dark small gauge wire and put a ring on the end of it and put it under the screw for the seat belt indicator, solved my problem for the cranking.

BonzoHansen · 09-13-2007, 11:08 AM

I found ok not great wiring diagrams. Probably hoisted off the autozone site before AZ pulled the 3rd gen diagrams (I'm guessing copyright/payment issues).

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=19

For the fuel pump IF the red wire to the relay is only hot on START, then you can use it to trigger the realy. All other wiring stays the same. Parts store relay in case of problem, and GM wiring.

I make the assumption that red wire is hot at crank only because it not it would keep the FP running all the time. I know there is a crank fuse.

Also Will, the diagram shows that pink lead from ignition switch to ign coil, so like I told you, splice that big pink out of the harness to the HEI (test it 1st, of course). S-Can that temp HEI wire you have now.

BonzoHansen · 09-13-2007, 11:13 AM

Cooling fan - add a switch. I see no switch in these diagrams, so what we saw must have been a CTS. No good for us.

Like this, again this lets you buy parts at any parts store.

89CamaroRS · 09-13-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter

IIRC There should be 4 wires on the starter relay. It should be behind the DS kick panel where the hood release is. Should be a silver box with the 4 wires, 2 large gauge and 2 small gauge. Mine has a light color wire (maybe yellow) and a dark wire with a stripe. I extended the dark small gauge wire and put a ring on the end of it and put it under the screw for the seat belt indicator, solved my problem for the cranking.

Just pulled that kick panel off. I dont have any relay behind there. Could it be in another spot?

PolarBear · 09-13-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

Just pulled that kick panel off. I dont have any relay behind there. Could it be in another spot?

Maybe that is why it wont crank?

I am not sure. That is where it was on both of my 3rd gens. You may just need to start tracing wires.

PolarBear · 09-13-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

For the fuel pump IF the red wire to the relay is only hot on START, then you can use it to trigger the realy. All other wiring stays the same. Parts store relay in case of problem, and GM wiring.

I make the assumption that red wire is hot at crank only because it not it would keep the FP running all the time. I know there is a crank fuse.

That red wire should not be connected to anything, should just be hanging with a protective cover under the relay, it is so you can manually prime the fuel pump. You apply power to it.... You wouldnt know it unless you have seen it before. The first picture is not great, or for the wrong year. We just need to look at my books, let me know when you get home and I will bring them over

89CamaroRS · 09-13-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter

Maybe that is why it wont crank?

I am not sure. That is where it was on both of my 3rd gens. You may just need to start tracing wires.

I do have a black box behind some sort of sticky pad under that kick panel. It has 4 wires coming out of it but it's 3 large gauge and one small. 2 yellow and 1 green w/stripe large gauge and one green small gauge. Could that be it?

BonzoHansen · 09-13-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter

That red wire should not be connected to anything, should just be hanging with a protective cover under the relay, it is so you can manually prime the fuel pump. You apply power to it.... You wouldnt know it unless you have seen it before. The first picture is not great, or for the wrong year. We just need to look at my books, let me know when you get home and I will bring them over

Actually, that makes some sense.

PolarBear · 09-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

I do have a black box behind some sort of sticky pad under that kick panel. It has 4 wires coming out of it but it's 3 large gauge and one small. 2 yellow and 1 green w/stripe large gauge and one green small gauge. Could that be it?

Yes that is it, I forgot about the pad with the adhesive on it.

89CamaroRS · 09-13-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter

Yes that is it, I forgot about the pad with the adhesive on it.

Kool, thx. Then i should be grounding the only small wire (dark green)?

PolarBear · 09-13-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

Kool, thx. Then i should be grounding the only small wire (dark green)?

The colors of the wire in my Helms manual (I have the 91 manual) are different but I think that should be the one

PolarBear · 09-15-2007, 09:40 PM

How is it going?

89CamaroRS · 09-16-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter

How is it going?

Sorry, my band had shows all weekend. Just got a chance to ground that relay. No change with the one small gauge green wire grounded. i have 2 large gauge yellows and one large gauge green w/white stripe still. Should i try anything with them?

PolarBear · 09-16-2007, 09:38 PM

Not sure, I wouldnt mess with anything else until you get a book with wiring diagrams for your year. Just let me make sure I got this correct, you havent done anything (other than listed here) to the harness switching from the V6 to the carb, right?

89CamaroRS · 09-16-2007, 10:34 PM

i removed the MAF sensor and a couple other sensors that the FI system used. Nothing that would affect cranking. And of course, this is a problem i had before the swap was even started so i doubt it has anything to do with it. Can anyone suggest a place to pick up a good diagram?

BonzoHansen · 09-17-2007, 10:17 AM

Maybe that starter relay is bad. Have you checked you have power into it? (yellow lead)

The yellow & the green/white wire should be big. The dk grn one is likely small gauge.

Do you have a test light?

If not, go down to the NAPA by the train station & get one.

89CamaroRS · 09-17-2007, 11:03 AM

the large gauge dark green going to the pass key decoder module would be the vats signal correct? Should i try grounding that wire to bypass VATS?

and no, i dont have a test light. i'll grab one today.

PolarBear · 09-17-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

the large gauge dark green going to the pass key decoder module would be the vats signal correct? Should i try grounding that wire to bypass VATS?

That was what I was trying to convey. Maybe you grounded the wrong wire?

89CamaroRS · 09-17-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter

That was what I was trying to convey. Maybe you grounded the wrong wire?

sorry, i had the striped green reversed with the dk green. I grounded the VATS wire already. Didn't help. I have the whole relay itself on order. I'll pick it up tomorrow and see what happens.

89CamaroRS · 09-17-2007, 12:12 PM

Could i safely bypass the relay just to see if that's the problem? Connect that yellow lead to the dk green that runs into the nss and try the key?

PolarBear · 09-17-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

Could i safely bypass the relay just to see if that's the problem? Connect that yellow lead to the dk green that runs into the nss and try the key?

Yes you can try that. I think Bonzo said he would just remove the relay completely, he may have said in person when we were thinking of solutions to your issue.

89CamaroRS · 09-17-2007, 12:27 PM

Just tried it once with each of the yellow wires connected to the green w/stripe. Didn't work. Does that eliminate the possibility of the relay being the problem then?

PolarBear · 09-17-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89CamaroRS

Just tried it once with each of the yellow wires connected to the green w/stripe. Didn't work. Does that eliminate the possibility of the relay being the problem then?

Probably. I am thinking starter switch on the column now, but like Scott said you should really see if the yellow wire has voltage. Could be an open fusable link or something, that would be the black part of the schematic on the red wire.