327 Need some opinions

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

Here's what you do......build an old school 327/350hp like the L-79 in the 66-67 Nova's, except get a more modern cam profile and modern heads and a tad less compression (10.0 to 1 maybe 10.5 to 1)....should be an easy 400hp on sunoco 93.....Run an RPM Air Gap intake, a 750DP or maybe a 650DP (as others have suggested), MSD Ign, Good headers 1-3/4 primaries, 3" collectors and a full 3" exhaust. Run the 4.10's out back with an overdrive tranny and hold on for the ride.....Done Deal........In the right car (no land barge impala's or monte carlos) that's got to be good for solid 12's with a good tune and suspension. Forget about the turbo thing.....When in doubt, keep it simple...

a master rebuild kit from Northern Auto is $470 (Federal mogul Seal power flattop pistons) with comp cam 2500-6500 hyd. bumpstick
a new forged LJ crank off ebay is $350
a set of new eagle rods off ebay is $330
SFI Balancer ATI $300
SFI flexplate $80? Flywheel $200?
ARP bolts for mains $100?
Moroso Pan/Pickup $200

$2000 for the shortblock is reasonable not including machine work and assuming you get the block for cheap/free....

Do the 327, its what you want and that's what matters.


Chris

And there it is. The only thing I would do different is go with a solid lifter cam.

Using a single plane manifold with a big carb on a smaller displacement motor is not generally recommended for street use. It can cause bogging and chugging, and will be tough to tune. Not to mention you won't have a ton of torque so you can't afford to lose that much.

The Air Gap is a great manifold. That should work very well.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

Tuned port 327 would be cool. You could even use stock ported components!!

[NJSPEEDER]

i love when i hear about people ripping on anything smaller than a 350. yes, there is some trade off of power when you go with a lower displacement, but it certainly isn't a 1:1 ratio either.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

i love when i hear about people ripping on anything smaller than a 350. yes, there is some trade off of power when you go with a lower displacement, but it certainly isn't a 1:1 ratio either.

Guys with 302s don't lose any ground to 350 cars.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

I may be the only one thinking this way, but if this will be a street driven car a single plane manifold and a 750 double pumper may make the engine a real dog down low.

I might guess a 750 is too large.

A nice set of affordable vortec heads might really make it hum.

Build it. If you don't like it, a solid running 327 is always marketableto a guy with a old car.

[r0nin89]

Thanks for the support everyone and especially for the build sheet Chris. Gonna be running 3.43's in the rear though because its gonna be a daily driver. And definatly opting for roller for the same reason. How do you think it will be on gas if I drive like Im 95? As far as the gears go what am I gonna loose as far as times with the higher ratio?

Hmm what heads should I put ontop of that build chris?

No stall converter on that setup btw?

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by r0nin89

Thanks for the support everyone and especially for the build sheet Chris. Gonna be running 3.43's in the rear though because its gonna be a daily driver. And definatly opting for roller for the same reason. How do you think it will be on gas if I drive like Im 95? As far as the gears go what am I gonna loose as far as times with the higher ratio?

Hmm what heads should I put ontop of that build chris?

No stall converter on that setup btw?

You need to decide if its gonna be auto or manual, that's gonna effect your cam selection and converter. If its auto, will it have OD? Lock up converter? When you say roller, do you mean roller cam? That's a pretty serious upgrade for a daily driven 12-13 second ride. Money that could probably be put to better use else where.

Heads is kinda tough, maybe someone else could chime in, but if you want the thing to spin to what 6500rpm?? you will need a head that can support that? Off the top of my head I'm thinking AFR 180's or 195's (68cc chamber, angle plug) or something similiar, decent port size, good mid range numbers that shouldn't kill you down low, especially with 3.42 gears (kinda on the weak side) and a pump gas friendly 68cc chamber. Zero deck the block, run a flattop piston (as small a valve relief as you can find/need to acheive desired Valve to pistion clearance) and a felpro 0.039 gasket and you should end up right at 10 to 1 for your compression.

Attached are the flow numbers for an AFR 180 and 195 street head. Notice these numbers are based on a bore size of 4.060 which is cheating a bit, because the larger bore unshrouds the vavle better and helps flow, but you will be at 4.030 so the numbers would be close. The 195 will have more room to grow in the future, but the 180 head might be the better choice for you current demands??? Either way both of these heads are light years ahead any "camel hump" or fuelie head from back in the day.

I'd rather see ya take the roller cam money and go with an overdrive tranny with more gear out back. Maybe a nicely built 700r4 with 3.73's and a converter to match the cam (25-2800??).....I doubt a hyd. roller would spin to 6500 and make power anyway without some really trick hardware, hyd. rollers are heavy.

Good luck, call the cam companies, the head manufactures and converter shops....they'll have the answers once you know EXACTLY what you want.

Chris

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Guys with 302s don't lose any ground to 350 cars.

3inch stroke = add gear for fun. 302's were know to be a bit weak off the line because they were cammed to come on at 5K+ rpm.
with the short stroke you could throw a large duration cam at them and just add gear until the motor came on. torque multiplication works jsut as well as actual horse power in the scenario

[Ian]

high revving motor + a ton of gear out back =

[r0nin89]

Well I am going to run this in a 3rd gen its a brand new freshly rebuilt 700r4 got like 3000miles on it. I dont wanna go anything steeper on gears than the 3.43's only because I will be driving this car everyday. As far as roller goes I was aiming for a roller cam and lifters because it saves gas. I didnt wanna upgrade the block to completly roller just the cam and lifters for a little less friction.


Price is a little steep for my budget... I'll keep em on the back burner but they are pretty steep after doing this all forged bottom.

[bad64chevelle]

Originally Posted by Ian

high revving motor + a ton of gear out back =

Is that why you wanted to ride with me that day to cops and rodders? Just wait for the 4speed Ian...then its time for some fun!

[bad64chevelle]

Originally Posted by r0nin89

Well I am going to run this in a 3rd gen its a brand new freshly rebuilt 700r4 got like 3000miles on it. I dont wanna go anything steeper on gears than the 3.43's only because I will be driving this car everyday. As far as roller goes I was aiming for a roller cam and lifters because it saves gas. I didnt wanna upgrade the block to completly roller just the cam and lifters for a little less friction.
Wheres a price for those heads?

Youre going to want to run a converter behing that motor, otherwise it will most likely be a dog...take it from experience...Mine runs like crap until about 3000 RPMs then takes off like a raped ape. Like I said before if you want other specs or want to check out how it runs let me know, I would be more than happy to show you before you get into the project. It may help your decision making on a few aspects.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by r0nin89

Well I am going to run this in a 3rd gen its a brand new freshly rebuilt 700r4 got like 3000miles on it. I dont wanna go anything steeper on gears than the 3.43's only because I will be driving this car everyday. As far as roller goes I was aiming for a roller cam and lifters because it saves gas. I didnt wanna upgrade the block to completly roller just the cam and lifters for a little less friction.


Price is a little steep for my budget... I'll keep em on the back burner but they are pretty steep after doing this all forged bottom.

If this is an original non roller block you are going to pay out your ass for a hydraulic roller and lifters. And if you are building to rev then the lifters are a bit heavy for you, as stated by 1QWIKBIRD.

[r0nin89]

Alright so a few things. No roller only because I keep reading/getting told it creates a problem at high rpms. I was thinking about running a 2500rpm converter on my trans just so it will pick up and go without heavy gears, sound good?

PS: Does flat tappet really strain mpg that much? I've had people I know tell me a roller engine gets much better gas mileage.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

sounds to me like there are too many chefs in the kitchen.. There are already conflicting opinions, guesses, and false statements.. You are going to be better off finding a person or shop that has experience with this engine and also some third gen knowledge to go along with it. Other wise you are going to go with this guys combo because its cheaper and this guys heads because he says you need them and in the end you are just going to have a pile of mismatched crap with 327 badges on it..

[JSPERFORMANCE]

and if that happens then yes... a stock 350 WILL beat you!!

[r0nin89]

Yeah which is why I ordered a book on 327 builds... I came here for opinions and suggestions. Thanks for the advice.

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by JSPERFORMANCE

sounds to me like there are too many chefs in the kitchen.. There are already conflicting opinions, guesses, and false statements.. You are going to be better off finding a person or shop that has experience with this engine and also some third gen knowledge to go along with it. Other wise you are going to go with this guys combo because its cheaper and this guys heads because he says you need them and in the end you are just going to have a pile of mismatched crap with 327 badges on it..

best advice so far.......by far.....

chris

[vegaken]

I hope that you sort out that whole combination before spending any cash. There are a ton of variables left. What size tire are you going to run out back. I can tell you that if you buy an off the shelf converter it is not going to perform the way you think it should. The torque that motor is going to put out is not going to be enough to get the stall to were you think it should be. What parts do you have for that motor? If you don't have anything but the block build some cubes and lie to everyone and tell them it is a 327, no one is going to know but you and the guy building it for you. Figure out what you really want out of the car otherwise you will do nothing but chuck money at it and be unhappy. I understand about wanting to do stuff on the cheap but take your time and be happy with the end result, don't comprimise on the build up. And don't worry about the thing revving, guys out at Bamman's shop are building 412 inch motors and revving them 9000+. The revs will come with lighter stuff and you should not really notice the difference in the revs in a stock style bottom end with a 327 and 383 or 355. Besides most parts cost the same these days and more cubes equal free power for the price.
Just have some fun but take your time.
Ken

[r0nin89]

I havent gotten anything yet. Dont even have the block in my posession. As far as cubes go I'm not gonna lie and say my 355 is a 327. Everything is getting done the way I want to and thats building a 327. Its all going forged and that the only thing set in stone right now. Like the original post says dont try to convince me to go more cubes. Ford 302's kick 350's ass 5times daily so when you say cubes are free power its obviously not THAT important.

[NJSPEEDER]

how do you wanna use this engine?
i am bored and playing with DD2000 and some oether software i have. all i need to know is your budget and how far you wanna rev the thing and i can come up with some pballpark power figures.

[r0nin89]

From the looks of things I'm gonna be going 355 due to money issues with building the 327. Everything is just more expensives... I just have my fingers crossed its a large journal block so I can bore it drop a 350 crank and have a 355 w/o looking for another block...

[bad64chevelle]

before you do that could you find out what year the block is? Thanks!

[r0nin89]

Yeah looking for a numbers matching block?

[bad64chevelle]

no i just wanted to know what year it was and what it was out of if possible