pics of the motor 2.

[hardline_42]

Matt, I think the parts you picked are dead on. IIRC, that's pretty much Dirt Reynold's setup on his 400. NJSpeeder, when you say the cam is junk, I don't know if you are referring to the quality of the grind, or the actual cam specs. I've never had a Summit cam, but I've never heard any complaints either. As for the cam specs, they are great for a large displacement small block. These engines can swallow a lot of cam and still be champs down low. Plus, the extra duration on the exhaust side will help out if you're running Vortecs. Double pumper carbs are great but I doubt you'll need it. I would focus on building something that's driver friendly while sacrificing the least amount of power.

PS. It's the right cam. The street/strip version has the same exact specs. It's P/N SUM-1107

[WayFast84]

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=1#Application

that was just all the aplications...

this is the exzact same set up dirt renolds got a 12.1 in a 37xx pound car.. everything is the same but the cam, wich is the cheaper version of the crane cam he used, same specs, and i heard crane makes the cams for summit

edit and Im trying to get the vortecs and the intake used...

[V]

dont forget to add lifters to your list...

[WayFast84]

yep lifters centerbolt valve covers head gaskets etc

just wondering are the recomended springs for the cam specs or just thrown into the recomended items? why are lifters so expensive?

edit look downward

[hardline_42]

Originally Posted by SmokingSS

dont forget to add lifters to your list...

Voila! Problem solved:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

[V]

ok, time now to add new pushrods, rocker arms, and a distributor...


i just looked at the lift of that cam, its so cute... a lil baby cam, hehe, nothing like mine

[hardline_42]

Originally Posted by WayFast84

yep lifters centerbolt valve covers head gaskets etc

just wondering are the recomended springs for the cam specs or just thrown into the recomended items? why are lifters so expensive?

edit look downward

Be careful with the spring selection. You need to know the extent of the work you plan to do to the heads. If the guide bosses are staying untouched (no machining) then you are limited in spring choice by the inside diameter. The scoggin-dickey z28 springs are a good, inexpensive choice if this is your plan. If you're going all out with the heads, then get whatever the cam manufacturer suggests and machine the heads to fit them.

[hardline_42]

Originally Posted by SmokingSS

ok, time now to add new pushrods, rocker arms, and a distributor...


i just looked at the lift of that cam, its so cute... a lil baby cam, hehe, nothing like mine

Ooh this is fun! You don't need new pushrods (unless the ones on the engine are ridiculously bent) since Vortecs don't require special length rods. You can use stock GM rockers (cheap) and they hold up just fine. If you want to upgrade you'll pay for it. I do have a set of new Vortec roller tip rockers that I'll let go for cheap if you wanna go that route. Now for the dizzy, this is the one I had before I switched to a Stealth Ram system and had to get a small cap :

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm

[NJSPEEDER]

i am refering to the cam specs as junk. you can make way more power with a smaller cam, or go with a modern lobe design of equal lift and duration and make a ton more power. summit cams are cut but crane, so i doubt quality is an issue.

[V]

ok well i wasnt sure if the vortecs would need different pushrods. sicne he has stock 84 LG4 ones and the 400 ones. same with the rockers, although i still love the paint job on the 400 ones. And i mentioned the dizzy just so he gets an idea of everything hes gonna be buying.


but tim...they know a guy who knows a guy who had that same spec cam and got a good 1/4 mile et......yet they didnt mention anythign about trans, stall or clutch, gearing, tires, suspension...lol

[WayFast84]

3.42 gears, no clue on coverter yet, suspension = nothing, why? because no money, ill be doing suspension when I can actually legally drive the car, but hopefully i can get a cheapo subframe conectors for christmas..

honestly paul, when was the last time you tuched an 400sbc

[V]

hahahahahaha matt when was the last time you rebuilt an engine? or actually got one up and runnign for that matter? i was NOT bashign this in anyway just trying to make sure you know all the stuff youll need.

and for this dirty vortec guy, who cares what he ran, you never said ALL the spec of his setup. i dont care what trans etc YOU have, i meant HIM. a built suspension car take a ton of time off 1/4 ets

so STFU and NEVER try to act like you know **** better then me

[hardline_42]

Originally Posted by SmokingSS

but tim...they know a guy who knows a guy who had that same spec cam and got a good 1/4 mile et......yet they didnt mention anythign about trans, stall or clutch, gearing, tires, suspension...lol

No offense to anyone, but the "guy" you're talking about happens to be Dirt Reynolds, the author of the sticky on Nasty Z28 that everyone and their mom's forum has a link to. He's forgotten more about Vortecs than I know, and Wild Billy and Bonzo can attest to that. Also, if Matt got in touch with him, I doubt he'd steer him in the wrong direction. And let's be honest, Matt needs to learn to DRIVE before he can even think about laying down ET's at the track (no offense, Matt ). A proven engine combo is a great starting point and the rest of the set up can come later.

[V]

ok so fine, but that still doesnt mean anythign to me, he could be god for all i care, i was just saying, NONE of his setup specs were posted here. is his bottom end the exact same as the one you sold matt?

[hardline_42]

Originally Posted by SmokingSS

ok so fine, but that still doesnt mean anythign to me, he could be god for all i care, i was just saying, NONE of his setup specs were posted here. is his bottom end the exact same as the one you sold matt?

Enjoy:

Originally Posted by Dirt Reynolds

Guys -- it would be great if those who have Vortec heads post their combo.

Here is my old Vortec combo for those who may be interested:

1977 Z28 Camaro - full-weight, all-steel, 3760-3775 lbs race-ready with driver.

Best ET: 12.15 @ 110.52 MPH on a very worn set of BFG 275/60 drag radials, launched off-idle, in the heat of July.

Highlight notes: Home-ported Vortecs with stock valves and stamped-steel rockers, hydraulic lifter cam, dual plane intake and vacuum secondary carb.

This engine was a budget build, since I had already spent a large portion of my original budget for this project purchasing the car as a rolling chassis:
#817 block 400, bored .060"-over for 412.7 ci. The block would not clean up at either .030" or .040" over, so we had to go .060".
11.3:1 CR w/ flat-top 2-valve relief KB pistons, .026" down in the hole, block not decked
ARP rod bolts, resized stock 400 rods, 5.565", rotating assembly not balanced
Crane 'Blazer' hyd. flat-tappet cam & lifter kit, 234/244 @ .050" .488"/.510", 114 LSA
Vortec heads - stock retainers had 3/16" ground off the bottoms for retainer to guide clearance (worked great), Crane single valvesprings with dampner removed, stock rocker arms and valves, fully ported bowls intake & exhaust; some minor runner work consisting of contouring and straightening the runner on the exhaust, and mostly roof work on the intakes with mild contouring of the runner.
Edelbrock RPM Vortec intake manifold, unported; Holley 3310 vac. secondary 750 - milled airhorn, installed #31 squirter, pink pump cam in position #3, secondary metering plate installed with #80 jets (stock #72 in front),quick-change vac.secondary pod installed with the white spring (lightest)
Hedman ceramic-coated 1 3/4" full-length headers, 3" dual exhaust with 2-chamber race Flowmaster mufflers and 18" turn-outs
Stock HEI (recurved), MSD Digital6+ ignition box with Blaster 3 coil, MSD wires, NGK plugs
Misc.: Holley Blue electric pump and regulator (set to 7 psi), sumped fuel tank, Flexalite dual electric fans with control box,TH400 transmission with 2800-3000 stall B&M converter, 4.10 gears, full spool, 33-spline axles, c-clip eliminators, welded axle tubes to housing, aluminum Moser rear cover girdle, Lakewood drag shocks 90/10 front/50/50 rear, no sway bars, 275/60 BFG drag radials rear on 15x8 Weld ProStars; 165/15 tires front on 15x3 Weld ProStars

Other notes:

This combo began as a 13.49/102MPH ride in untuned form on a generic 275/60 street tire, to the eventual 12.15/110.52 performance with the above carb modifications and the drag radials. I feel this particular combo -- had I stuck with it -- would have eventually ended up in the 11.80 - 11.90 range with further testing and tuning. The carb modifications made a HUGE difference in power. I feel there was more in this combo but I got sidetracked with another set of heads, intake, and solid cam. One thing I can state, the 4.10 gear was too much for this combo -- I feel the car would have been quicker and faster with a 3.42 or at most, 3.73 gear. This would enable the engine to pull harder through the midrange RPM band, where it made its best torque.

If you run a dished piston and deck the block, you'll be able to run 92 octane premium. If I did this engine over again, thats what I'd do. In the cooler months of the year, I could run on 94 octane, but in the summer heat I had to add a gallon or two of av gas 100 octane low lead to the tank to keep it happy. The Vortecs will enable you to run right up to about 10.5:1 CR on 92-94 octane without a problem, in my opinion. Maybe more with better quench than what I had.

This shows what is possible on a low-budget engine build, using the Vortec heads. No roller rockers, roller cam, or any trick parts. There are others out there with similar stories of their Vortec builds, so lets hear 'em guys!

[V]

Matt seriously, just let it go. i always was nice to you,

hardline, ok so his is a 413, whats the motor you sold matt 400...406?
are they the same rods? and whats the CR goign to be once a set of vortecs are put on?
thats just a point im tryign to make, but whatever, im done here now

[NJSPEEDER]

so all i have to do is get a sticky on nasty and i can be a hero to millions too? whoopity doooo!!!!!!

just because someone came up with a combo that worked in their car doesn't make it a great combo. 413cubes and he is only in the 12's? that is easy to beat.
give me a break man. there is a ton of technology out there that makes more power at the same or less rpm than this will.

[WayFast84]

It isnt about making the most power.


Its about a proven combination, that will make decent power for verry little money, and will allow me to not kill my self for the first year till i need more power.

[hardline_42]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

so all i have to do is get a sticky on nasty and i can be a hero to millions too? whoopity doooo!!!!!!

It also helps if you're a nice guy willing to help others and not a sarcastic jackass.

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

just because someone came up with a combo that worked in their car doesn't make it a great combo. 413cubes and he is only in the 12's? that is easy to beat.
give me a break man. there is a ton of technology out there that makes more power at the same or less rpm than this will.

I have no doubts that an aluminum block with forged internals and 32-valve arao engineering heads can blow the pants off the above combo. Now do it for the same price and it would be an accomplishment. Remember, Matt is on a budget an not as experienced as some of us. There is no shame in saving money and using components that have already proven to work well together.

[NJSPEEDER]

i would be happy to buy into the lovely reputation, but i can't see how anyone worth their weight in **** would recomend a 20 year old truck cam.
trust me, i have sepnt more hours offering advice to wayfast than you, i have never failed to be anything but honest with the kid and i will continue to do the same.

[WayFast84]

so while talking to tim, I might spend the extra 70 bucks on a different comp cams cam.. im not happy about not doing the set up, but hes right for 70 bucks more, its not a big deal, but now I gotta figure out what cam to choose, I might just leave it up to a profesional to pick.

[bad64chevelle]

Get the right cam the first time and do it right...its worth it. Ill be changing mine out within a year. I guess I like doing things the hard way, but learning as ya go is the only way to learn.

[NJSPEEDER]

comp cams tech help line is 1-800-999-0853
i would suggest xe284, power band is 2300-6500, 284/296 advertised duration, 507/510 lift with 1.5 rockers, 110 LSA.
power band is similar to what you were looking at and will yield a much broader torque curve.

[WayFast84]

i cant call them, Im a newb theyll be like you dont know chit

[hardline_42]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

i would be happy to buy into the lovely reputation, but i can't see how anyone worth their weight in **** would recomend a 20 year old truck cam.
trust me, i have sepnt more hours offering advice to wayfast than you, i have never failed to be anything but honest with the kid and i will continue to do the same.

I wasn't going after you, I just get a little frustrated with the general demeanor of this forum when it comes to criticism vs. help. It seems like Matt can't ask a question without the whole forum giving him crap for every little thing. Maybe it's the average age of the members on here or something else but the vibe isn't so great and it bothers me when someone says ignorant things about Nasty members who are actually commited to helping each other out and sharing information instead of insults. There's a much larger pool of knowledge there and I think that a little more research would be a good thing before opening up on people who have much more experience. That's all.