What would it take

[NJSPEEDER]

your goals are all over the place. do you want power or street manners? do you want all motor or is a power adder in the plans?
600hp is not terribly difficult with a small block if you match your parts properly. jsut be ready to spend some money to do so.
if you are concerned with driving the car, a blower would be a much easier route. it certainly wouldn't be any cheaper, but it would make it easier to maintain the 600hp you desire at a lower RPM.

answer these questions:
N/A or blower?
600hp on pump gas or race gas?
drivability or top end power?
is there an ET or trap speed goal related to this?
how much are you willing to spend?
what knd of time frame do you want to build this?

all of these are important questions to ask yourself and have solid answers for BEFORE you ever look at a single part for an engine.

[WayFast84]

Justin yeah I heard it

My personal opinion is he just wants bragging rights to say he has 600 hp then say he has a procharger. we've seen this happen, the only thing i have left to say is, go back to putting turbos on the camaro, that way you don't ruin a thirdgen

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by bubba428

I don't care about street manners...thats what the V6 is for.
I was looking at these parts and I think it would be a sweet combo

Heads DRT-11711143P
Cam LUN-07104LK
Rotating Assembly
ESP-B13454E030
Intake manifold WND-8501
Rockers SUM-G6920B

Just for fun I stuck these specs into DD2000 (with an 850cfm carb).....

Peak HP: 421 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 422 @ 4,500 rpm

Just swapping to a single plane intake from the dual plane....

Peak HP: 454 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 438 @ 5,000 rpm

BTW, those heads with that rotating assembly puts you at 9.9:1 compression.

- Justin

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Are you planning on using this primarily as a drag car?

You sound like you want it to do everything, and usually that just doesn't happen. Motors that make big HP numbers above 6,000 RPM generally don't make huge torque numbers below 2,000 RPM.

You can build a good motor with lots of low and midrange power, or you can build a good motor with lots of midrange and high rpm power, but you sound like you want something that will be an absolute screamer from 1,500 RPM to 6,500 RPM, and that just doesn't work.

- Justin

I'm looking for more mid - high end power I'll never use it at a low rpm. I miss phrased what I meant. Ok so say I go with the 5cc domed pistons and the same heads. What cam do you think I should use say If I kept it N/A, and what intake would you suggest.


Matt and arock...Thats why I'm building up a spare block. so If I run into financial issues I still have my car and so I don't have some POS rotting away in my yard.

[Savage_Messiah]

You know you are already in the LethalSkorpionRidez club, right? Are you going for the presidency there or something?

[GP99GT]

so you want to spend all this money, make 600hp, and then put cheapo summit racing roller rockers on it?

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by Savage_Messiah

You know you are already in the LethalSkorpionRidez club, right? Are you going for the presidency there or something?

at least my I'm not making up fake numbers just to run 19s. nor am I claiming to pull tires. I'm just trying to get ideas for my next project. I spent almost a year researching parts for my V6. How do you think I found out about most of the little quirks of the motor. Now I've had my 86 for maybe two month and I'm starting to do the same thing. I most likely won't touch anything till next winter when I have more than enough money and have all the parts I want in a final set list. but this time I'm gonna build a spare motor so I still have the car to drive.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

[WildBillyT]

My opinion (again)

If you are planning on procharging a 600hp small block you are probably closing in on aftermarket block territory.

That said, if I were you I'd built up a 454 small block using a World aftermarket block. Screw the procharger, and you can cam the balls off of it without worrying about sacrificing too much drivability.

[transamkid]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Just for fun I stuck these specs into DD2000 (with an 850cfm carb).....

Peak HP: 421 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 422 @ 4,500 rpm

Just swapping to a single plane intake from the dual plane....

Peak HP: 454 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 438 @ 5,000 rpm

BTW, those heads with that rotating assembly puts you at 9.9:1 compression.

- Justin

thats the zz383 territory there, except i have 460ft lbs of torque

[Mike]

sooo bubba, your a "tire tech" and by next winter you will have enough money to finish the v6 car and build a "600 na hp streetable monster" for your other car......... wtf do you you put tires on, the space shuttles?

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

sooo bubba, your a "tire tech" and by next winter you will have enough money to finish the v6 car and build a "600 na hp streetable monster" for your other car......... wtf do you you put tires on, the space shuttles?

no...but I make enough money to pay the couple bills I have, and still have play money. That and I'm taking a 2nd job with a construction company in the spring when they start hiring again.

[98tadriver]

Originally Posted by bubba428

To make a 383 stroker put out 600 N/A HP. As son as the '94 is drivable I'm building something real nasty for the '86

so you're saying you will never do the 383 build ?

and even if you did manage those, say bye byes to the drivetrain, as it would not hold up to the hp. you will not get traction, and you will break everything that's behind the motor, so theres thousands more to spend.

scrap the V6, save up your money and get a 4th gen V8 car and run 12s. some of them have T56's too

[BonzoHansen]

You goals are easier with an LS based motor – and a lot more cash.

[alamantia]

So.. you want to build a 600hp engine for a 20 year old beat car? I normally stay out of this stuff but take it from someone who just bought a house and wishes he had all the money back that he spent on car parts, beer.... dont

if your going to even consider something like that, look into a crate 434 or something already built so your not waisting tons of time and money building, if you want to get raked over the coals you can go to shafirof or a compeditor, http://www.ultrastreet.net/434_classic.asp best of luck tho. Just my $0.02

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by bubba428

no...but I make enough money to pay the couple bills I have, and still have play money. That and I'm taking a 2nd job with a construction company in the spring when they start hiring again.

go here

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ild/index.html

and here

http://www.coloradodragracing.com/showthread.php?t=590

The difference between 525/550 hp levels and 600 hp levels is dramatic both in equipment and in price. That's why you don't see 383 crate engines much past the 500hp mark for the most part. You are really getting into a niche type of market and a custom built entry level race engine. Especially if you are going pump gas NA.

A 383 that makes and honest 600hp at the crank is making 1.57 hp per cubic inch. That would require carefully selected parts (heads, cam, compression, carb) that would likely be less that optimal with the assisted breathing you speak of down the road. You need to do more reading and homework and figure out what you really want, otherwise you will compromise your goals, waste money (can always make more) and time (so precious).

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

go here

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ild/index.html

and here

http://www.coloradodragracing.com/showthread.php?t=590

The difference between 525/550 hp levels and 600 hp levels is dramatic both in equipment and in price. That's why you don't see 383 crate engines much past the 500hp mark for the most part. You are really getting into a niche type of market and a custom built entry level race engine. Especially if you are going pump gas NA.

A 383 that makes and honest 600hp at the crank is making 1.57 hp per cubic inch. That would require carefully selected parts (heads, cam, compression, carb) that would likely be less that optimal with the assisted breathing you speak of down the road. You need to do more reading and homework and figure out what you really want, otherwise you will compromise your goals, waste money (can always make more) and time (so precious).

Thank you...thats all I was trying to get. I do plan on doing a whole lot more research while I set aside funds to get this car in racing shape.

[98tadriver]

heads/cam LS1 + N20 = 600hp. and thats only a 346ci motor

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by 98tadriver

neads/cam LS1 + N20 = 600hp. and thats only a 346ci motor

well thats cause the ignition system and the Ls1 have a very good bore/stroke combo

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by bubba428

well thats cause the ignition system and the Ls1 have a very good bore/stroke combo

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

You goals are easier with an LS based motor – and a lot more cash.

I just wanted to say that again. If you are starting from scratch, it is the best way to go to get to your goals.

[bubba428]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

I just wanted to say that again. If you are starting from scratch, it is the best way to go to get to your goals.

yes it is...but I wanna go classic smallblock for some reason. I can't explain it. I guess If I wanted an LSx I would just get a whole car. Maybe one day when LSx 's are out dated I might

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by bubba428

well thats cause the ignition system and the Ls1 have a very good bore/stroke combo

I think it has less to do with bore/stroke and ignition as it does with cylinder head technology. LS based motors have 15 deg. heads versus old school 23 degree heads. 15 deg. heads on a SBC are super ultra race bred type heads, think nascar, think world of outlaws on alcohol.....Even 18 degrees stuff, while now is kinda common, but even that was once only for the elite.

here's a link to flow sheets for lots of different aftermarket heads most are 23 degrees units:

http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com...fo/heads1.html


Heres a link to brodix 15 degree heads....look at the difference in flow potential:

http://www.hekimianracing.com/brodix.htm#B12

Now compare the flow numbers of the LS1 units in the first link to the brodix 15 degree flow numbers......see the similarity????


Its in the heads more than anything.

Chris

[bubba428]

So based on the info in the 1st link do you think It would be better to go with the GM fast burn heads. They're numbers are also similar to the LS1 heads. I saw summit has them for 675 per head, and they're aluminum. I mean I could always get a P&P job on them to boost that up a bit but is that not a better start?

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by bubba428

So based on the info in the 1st link do you think It would be better to go with the GM fast burn heads. They're numbers are also similar to the LS1 heads. I saw summit has them for 675 per head, and they're aluminum. I mean I could always get a P&P job on them to boost that up a bit but is that not a better start?

No, the fastburn heads don't do much better on that combo, i tried them too....

- Justin

[SteveR]

are you looking for consistency? Any street time? What else are you doing to the car?

If you're building a race motor ,then do it right, unless you want to blow it up and try again. If it's going to be n/a, then build a solid n/a motor. If you want a power adder. then build it that way. You really shouldn't build a high compression n/a motor, then add a supercharger to it. Something about that idea leads me to think there'll be fireworks before too long. No matter what you do, DON'T build your motor using a Summit catalog. If it's going to be a race motor, use high quality race parts. And don't be an amateur and randomly pick some cam out of a book, send the motor specs to the pros at Crower and have them custom grind one for you FOR THAT MOTOR!