The New.. Z28.

[BonzoHansen]

That is the history whether you choose to accept it or not. The marketers changed it over the years, you are proof of that.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

That is the history whether you choose to accept it or not. The marketers changed it over the years, you are proof of that.

My uncle still has his 69 GTO Ram air 3 (I believe) in his garage and he always tells me stories about when they use to hang out at the Mcdonalds on 168 in Mt ephraim NJ every night. That was the car spot in the late 60's early 70's. His car was a pretty stout car but he said when the camaro 396 SS and the other SS chevys rolled in that they were the big dogs that unless you were a big block you would not want to drag race.. They use to run down were 295 is. This is my Uncle who told me His stories about when he was into street racing and Drag racing. He bought His GT0 brand new and he still has it.

Apparantly the marketers changed it pretty much from the begining.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

So was the SS396 faster in the 1/4 then the Z28?

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

My uncle still has his 69 GTO Ram air 3 (I believe) in his garage and he always tells me stories about when they use to hang out at the Mcdonalds on 168 in Mt ephraim NJ every night. That was the car spot in the late 60's early 70's. His car was a pretty stout car but he said when the camaro 396 SS and the other SS chevys rolled in that they were the big dogs that unless you were a big block you would not want to drag race.. They use to run down were 295 is. This is my Uncle who told me His stories about when he was into street racing and Drag racing. He bought His GT0 brand new and he still has it.

Apparantly the marketers changed it pretty much from the begining.

First off, the SS396 came in 3 different power levels, 325, 350, 375hp. IIRC, the 375hp is the only car that was able to outpower the Z28.

Yes, modded big blocks are very powerful, and in a drag race, Id rather take a 396 big block over a high revving, small cube, short stroked 302.
But on the track, a real race car, Ill take the Z28.
In 1970, when Trans Am rules allowed more cubes, the first LT-1 350ci stepped ontot he stage, making 370hp in the vette, 360 in the Camaro Z28. The LT-1 was ONLY available in the Z28 Camaro, while other 350's were of much lower output.
Also by 70, the 396(402) was on its way out due to emissions and gas prices. LT-1 was the engine to have.
SS was dead from the mid 70's to 1996 when SLP brought it back, and eventually SLP became a Tier 1 supplier and GM built the SS in house.

Z28 will always be the race car. You can always talk about cars on the streets of such and such time, but realize that none of them were probably stock.

[Frosty]

Like Scott said, there is much, MUCH more than 1/4 mile times. This history is what it is, the Z/28 was an overall better performer, than the SS. The Z/28 was in essence a race car that was more than just in a straight line...FACT, not opinion.

The badges are correct more so now with the whole retro theme.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

My uncle still has his 69 GTO Ram air 3 (I believe) in his garage and he always tells me stories about when they use to hang out at the Mcdonalds on 168 in Mt ephraim NJ every night. That was the car spot in the late 60's early 70's. His car was a pretty stout car but he said when the camaro 396 SS and the other SS chevys rolled in that they were the big dogs that unless you were a big block you would not want to drag race.. They use to run down were 295 is. This is my Uncle who told me His stories about when he was into street racing and Drag racing. He bought His GT0 brand new and he still has it.

Apparantly the marketers changed it pretty much from the begining.

There you go. No mention of the SS350. The fact there were numerous engine options, and all of those engines were available w/o buying the SS package shows the SS was an appearance package. I'd more worried about a dog-dished L78 Camaro over most any SS.

[sweetbmxrider]

my berger panel is teh fastest!!!11!1!11!!!!!!!1!

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

my LT1 is teh fastest!!!11!1!11!!!!!!!1!

You got the wrong kind of bad pal!

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

There you go. No mention of the SS350. The fact there were numerous engine options, and all of those engines were available w/o buying the SS package shows the SS was an appearance package. I'd more worried about a dog-dished L78 Camaro over most any SS.

So how many 396 Z28's were there? just wonderring...

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

So how many 396 Z28's were there? just wonderring...

First gen Z28's only came in with the DZ302.

Idk how many 396 SS's there were.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

First gen Z28's only came in with the DZ302.

Idk how many 396 SS's there were.

So in other words if you wanted the camaro with the baddest engine in it then you had to buy a SS right? Interesting...

Looks like the baddest production motor back in the 1st gens was the L78 396 with the aluminum heads.. 375hp and 415 ftlbs

The 350 in the SS was also rated at 300 hp in 1969 compared to the 302 in the Z28 which was rated at 290.. Now numbers dont mean everything but comparing motor to motor it seems as though the SS had more power then the Z28's But the Z28's, just like in the 4th gen years were the lighter, not as many optioned as the SS's were. Unlike the 4th gen years the SS and the Z28 had different motors all together. But if you wanted a factory big block back in the 60's then you had to get a SS so it seems it was more then just an apperance option..

So now with this new Z28 coming out they seemed to completly turn the table with it. It has the baddest motor in it and will probably have just as many options as a SS..

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

First gen Z28's only came in with the DZ302

They were all 302s, not all DZ motors. 67, 68=MO/MP(smog version); 69=DZ

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

So in other words if you wanted the camaro with the baddest engine in it then you had to buy a SS right? Interesting...

No. You could get the same engine w/o going SS. And the SS package didn't make it faster. You could get any engine/trim package combination except the 302&Z28 which are a single deal. No SS needed to get L78, L89.

You are missing the point. This conversation was not about engines or production numbers, it's about 'badging'. And the history of Camaro badging is the Z28 was a car built to meet Trans Am racing rules. The SS was a badging package that only required a V8, not any particular one. Z28 was a racing option, one that won a lot of Trans Am racing, which mattered more back then.

Everyone knows the HP figures are wrong back then. The 302@290hp is a joke, closer to 400. Not a great street engine, it lacked useful bottom end. But it pulled past 7500 and the HP kept going higher past the 5000 rpm or so they used to advertise the 302’s 290hp. That said, I have no argument the 396 car was a best quarter miler. Ignoring the ZL1 option.

But SS started as a trim package; Z28 started as a race car. It also netted power discs, 15” wheels. No AC. No automatics. The 3rd gen 1LE is similar in comncept.

[BigAls87Z28]

I dont agree with the engine in the Z28. I wish it was morelike what Ford did with the Boss. Lighter, lower, crank up the power a bit more, tighten up suspension, better brakes, and let her rip. THAT is a real Z28.
Call this Z28, a ZL1 or something...

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I dont agree with the engine in the Z28. I wish it was morelike what Ford did with the Boss. Lighter, lower, crank up the power a bit more, tighten up suspension, better brakes, and let her rip. THAT is a real Z28.
Call this Z28, a ZL1 or something...

I agree with. This is a supercharged tugboat. You want a true 1LE car like the 3rd gen ones.

[Frosty]

OMG you mentioned a thirdgen, blasphemy!

[NastyEllEssWon]

all this debate between road course and 1/4 mile times just shows why the fbody platform was so successful. its just versatile and can perform in a variety of ways depending upon what you want and choose for the car.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

No. You could get the same engine w/o going SS. And the SS package didn't make it faster. You could get any engine/trim package combination except the 302&Z28 which are a single deal. No SS needed to get L78, L89.

So there were 4 camaro's back then. Base, RS, SS, and Z28.. You can mix a RSSS and a RSZ28 together.. So what you are saying is that you could get a 396 in a base, RS and a SS but not in a Z28? If that were the case I would get a Base camaro with a 396 and no options and that thing would have been a rocket..

It also seemed that starting with the 2nd gen the camaro turned into Muscle car status..

I dont really care about badging anyways. They got rid of SS then brought it back, They got rid of Z28 ,then brought it back, Then got rid of it again, now they are bringing it back.. I am sorry but for me the history of the Camaro died back in 2002 with the Firebird.. These new cars are very nice and I hope they last but they are not my taste. Still better then a mustang however..

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

all this debate between road course and 1/4 mile times just shows why the fbody platform was so successful. its just versatile and can perform in a variety of ways depending upon what you want and choose for the car.

Good point.. I tell you what. They gave you a ton of options all the way up to the 4th gens. Maybe thats what helped kill the F-body..

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

They were all 302s, not all DZ motors. 67, 68=MO/MP(smog version); 69=DZ



No. You could get the same engine w/o going SS. And the SS package didn't make it faster. You could get any engine/trim package combination except the 302&Z28 which are a single deal. No SS needed to get L78, L89.

Scott:

Do you have some examples of this? This is the first I've heard that you could get an "SS engine" in a non-SS car. The hottest engine in a base car was an L30 or an LM1 IIRC, barring COPO 9560 and 9561 of course.

Regarding the first generation cars, as I said before it depends on your definition of speed. Z/28s are not quarter milers, and numbers from back in the day when all else was equal proves that. Unless you got one with an M20 and 4.xx gears, where you might do OK. But the cr transmissions and 3.73 gears and not much low end power were a bad match for dragging. However the SS396 cars are not competent road course cars. Nose heavy FTL.

Not really a "which is better" more than two different speed options.